New Campaign Workshop- Legend of the Faded Suns

So, I have gotten the "new campaign" bug ( a periodic infection that ends up often in ruin, with half baked ideas, maps, and word documents, often ending in some other new campaign bug). The premise being as follows:

- A cataclysmic war that ended when the Emperor opened a portal to hell and summoned demons to win the war.
- Unfortunately said emperor, retinues, and allies had to flee since said demons were uncontrollable, and took over most of the continent.
- Most of the populace are now subjugated in walled cities and primarily held as cattle/resources/entertainment.
- the PCs are descendants of the Emperor/Retinue who have been surviving in some remote location.

Starting point:

- Remnants of some ancient city out in some remote area (desert??/underdark?/other?) where the survivors fled to.
- Inside out conceptually...start with the PCs knowing little (what do they know?) and primarily exploring the ruins of the city
- From there they can "explore" the world as they see fit (What is the motive?- wards failing?).

Some Questions:

- What is their current base? factions? structure? how do classes tie in?
- What is out there? It is bleak enough as is, need to had a dollop of hope (i.e., potential allies)
- Any products you can think of that I can retrofit into this?
- Open to any and all thoughts and ideas (including how awfully sucky all this is!)
 

DangerousPuhson

Should be playing D&D instead
Ah, I ran something similar a couple years ago, where half the campaign was spent adventuring around a big island doing what was essentially an elaborate fetch-quest for a demon (the party was tricked into doing it, believing themselves to be stopping the apocalypse rather than causing it), while the second half of the campaign took place over a brief time-skip into the same island now under demon control. Basically the party got TPK'd while releasing the demon and the skipped ahead in time by a few decades by way of NPC resurrection (yes, this was intended), so they could witness the changes as a result of their actions.

It was fun coming up with all the changes - the villages they loved being turned into prison camps, the factions they fought now beseeching their aid, groups forming underground resistances, all the dwarves sealing themselves away under a mountain, etc. The best was that the players were all resurrected in a Tomb of Heroes built for them by the demons, who had made monuments/statues to the party touted as the champions who ushered in the demonic invasion. Essentially the party inadvertently became symbols of evil oppression, which really flipped the NPC encounter dynamics of the campaign on its head. We had fun.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Trying to recall, EST, weren't you talking about something similar awhile back? I seem to recall a mental image of a hidden city in the mountains, with a perpetuated lie that the outside world was uninhabitable. The PC's grew up in that city, but find a way out to discover a barbarous world of mutated beings (e.g. orc, trolls, goblins, etc.).

Am I just imagining that conversation?

Well, if you went that way...you could:
  • have a black market "contact" that supplies the PCs with gear and shows them a passageway to the outside
  • the internal society could be a heavily stratified caste-system: clergy (clerics) & military (fighters)
  • the illegitimate underworld (bottom caste) gives you thieves, and (banned) MU's dabbling in the forbidden "black arts"
  • dwarves are a proletariat class working in the under-city
  • halflings are a domestic servant-class in the homes of the upper classes (clergy, military)
  • the passage itself could be your basic low-level dungeon (maybe with a half-way rest stop full of other "escapists" who never made it to the Outside---some could even tell the PCs there is no way out...that escape is a lie.)
  • outside is the campaign world...complete with Sanctuary: a promised paradise (a la Logan's Run) but in reality just a shanty-town of other escapees huddled against the various marauding humanoid clans. Getting outside is essentially a one-way trip until high-enough level is reached to return to the original Hidden City via magic.
  • legendary "intact" ancient cities tantalize the PC's to explore deeper into the unknown (City of the Gods?)
  • something out there is gathering its forces to invade the "hidded" home city --- maybe there's a lost artifact that allows them to pierce it's defenses. Fetch-quest/race!
  • outside, babies are born mutated (i.e. unsustainable) --- a mystery to unravel and put right
(...and everyone else is human. Ha! Tieflings and Dragonborn can go suck it!)

Here's how I imagine it might play out...

The escape-from-the-city Pilot is an awesome big-budget 2-hour movie. The 1-hour weekly episodes on the Outside are kind of lame one-offs with a fraction of the budget and no lasting plot effects (but a lot of heart---and take turns highlighting the backstory each of the PCs via flashbacks). Washed-up and over-the-hill PCs make guest appearances. But(!), at the end of each season there's a Finale with a cliff-hanger that "totally rocks!" and ties back into the larger mythos and makes you think something significant is finally going to happen...but it never really does. After 3 seasons of rinse-and-repeat, it gets cancelled. Die-hard fans are appalled, and start an on-line petition to save-it on TwitFace. A 90-minute special is produced years later that provides fans with rapid-fire (and ultimately unsatisfying) closure.

Oh...wait...you wanted to play D&D. I forgot...

Thought we were story-boarding a new Amazon/Netflix series...
 
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The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
My 30th lvl Githzerai Clr/Rog/Shadowbane Stalker/Assassin would Backflip, 360-no-scope Headshot Sauron for breakfast and then break that worthless ring down for parts at lunch, snort :geek:
 

The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Some Questions:
My questions are:
How flooded with demons is this world? Demons being particularly anathema to low-mid lvl play...
Did they spread out or are they concentrated somewhere?
Is it like Planescape where if the PC's keep their heads down and work the bluff/diplomacy angle, they can get around without getting jumped on by an overwhelming combat every 5 min?
Follow up to that: Will it become increasingly clear that their world has been yoinked into the Abyss?
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
My 30th lvl Githzerai Clr/Rog/Shadowbane Stalker/Assassin would Backflip, 360-no-scope Headshot Sauron for breakfast and then break that worthless ring down for parts at lunch, snort :geek:
Loser! Sauron doesn't have a head...just an EYE!

( His eye! HIS EYE! --- It b u u u r r r n n n s s s s !!!! .... Other than that, it's working out for me pretty well. Just last week, I launched a kickstarter for my own Backyard Slave Pit. )
 
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Trying to recall, EST, weren't you talking about something similar awhile back? I seem to recall a mental image of a hidden city in the mountains, with a perpetuated lie that the outside world was uninhabitable. The PC's grew up in that city, but find a way out to discover a barbarous world of mutated beings (e.g. orc, trolls, goblins, etc.).

Am I just imagining that conversation?

Well, if you went that way...you could:
  • have a black market "contact" that supplies the PCs with gear and shows them a passageway to the outside
  • the internal society could be a heavily stratified caste-system: clergy (clerics) & military (fighters)
  • the illegitimate underworld (bottom caste) gives you thieves, and (banned) MU's dabbling in the forbidden "black arts"
  • dwarves are a proletariat class working in the under-city
  • halflings are a domestic servant-class in the homes of the upper classes (clergy, military)
  • the passage itself could be your basic low-level dungeon (maybe with a half-way rest stop full of other "escapists" who never made it to the Outside---some could even tell the PCs there is no way out...that escape is a lie.)
  • outside is the campaign world...complete with Sanctuary: a promised paradise (a la Logan's Run) but in reality just a shanty-town of other escapees huddled against the various marauding humanoid clans. Getting outside is essentially a one-way trip until high-enough level is reached to return to the original Hidden City via magic.
  • legendary "intact" ancient cities tantalize the PC's to explore deeper into the unknown (City of the Gods?)
  • something out there is gathering its forces to invade the "hidded" home city --- maybe there's a lost artifact that allows them to pierce it's defenses. Fetch-quest/race!
  • outside, babies are born mutated (i.e. unsustainable) --- a mystery to unravel and put right
(...and everyone else is human. Ha! Tieflings and Dragonborn can go suck it!)

Here's how I imagine it might play out...

The escape-from-the-city Pilot is an awesome big-budget 2-hour movie. The 1-hour weekly episodes on the Outside are kind of lame one-offs with a fraction of the budget and no lasting plot effects (but a lot of heart---and take turns highlighting the backstory each of the PCs via flashbacks). Washed-up and over-the-hill PCs make guest appearances. But(!), at the end of each season there's a Finale with a cliff-hanger that "totally rocks!" and ties back into the larger mythos and makes you think something significant is finally going to happen...but it never really does. After 3 seasons of rinse-and-repeat, it gets cancelled. Die-hard fans are appalled, and start an on-line petition to save-it on TwitFace. A 90-minute special is produced years later that provides fans with rapid-fire (and ultimately unsatisfying) closure.

Oh...wait...you wanted to play D&D. I forgot...

Thought we were story-boarding a new Amazon/Netflix series...
Ha! I think we did have this discussion...maybe? Let's pitch this to Amazon; clearly episodes 4-9 will be just filler stuff (ha, that kind of aligns with most Adventure Paths actually).
 
My questions are:
How flooded with demons is this world? Demons being particularly anathema to low-mid lvl play...
Did they spread out or are they concentrated somewhere?
Is it like Planescape where if the PC's keep their heads down and work the bluff/diplomacy angle, they can get around without getting jumped on by an overwhelming combat every 5 min?
Follow up to that: Will it become increasingly clear that their world has been yoinked into the Abyss?
I am envisioning the Party evolving (or dying) in their journey before they encounter any of the major settlements. I don't envision the world being yoinked into the Abyss, but rather a demonic hierarchy settling the continent with minions serving them (including humans and others who have smartly aligned to the cause). This also gives space to "resistance" and faction play (hmm, Illithid allies?, Liches?) including "old" orders that might have evolved.

Kind of seeing the world as "dark sunish."
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
Kind of seeing the world as "dark sunish."
That really clarifies things. Dark Sun with the Sorcerer-Kings and their lieutenants being demons. Or the Age of Demons from Eberron's timeline, although that was literally beyond mortals' ability to fix without draconic magic and immortal sacrifice.
 
That really clarifies things. Dark Sun with the Sorcerer-Kings and their lieutenants being demons. Or the Age of Demons from Eberron's timeline, although that was literally beyond mortals' ability to fix without draconic magic and immortal sacrifice.
Yep, pretty much on point- not the overwhelming nature of Age of Demons, but more the very powerful but vulnerable, and "ruling" and similar to the sorcerer-kings, limited in number and reach/domain, and reliant on a hierarchal power structure (I have cribbed a bit from Iuz/Greyhawk stuff here to get going).
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
(I have cribbed a bit from Iuz/Greyhawk stuff here to get going).
Hmm, I wonder if you could reflavour all that Greyhawk Iuz material (ToEE, Tsojcanth, etc.) so the denizens of those dungeons were part of the establishment, and the PCs were acting in rebellion against that.
 

The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Ooooh yeah. Dig up all that ancient Igwilv and the Wolfspider lore. There's a Tsojcanth reboot in later Dungeon mags with expanded lore and wilderness encounters (and teeth-grinding 3e combat porn, sorry). Get Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil with expanded lore on the Cult of the Elder Elemental Eye and tie it in with Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun which absolutely works as an establishment redoubt. Figure out if forgotten Tharizdun is older than the demons (and therefor an evil enemy to them)... There's some good stuff in there for strip mining.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Read up on this: https://eberron.fandom.com/wiki/Age_of_Demons

Ouch. Something is off here (for me). Too detailed? Too tidy? Or too cosmic-but-normal?

I also just can't do good dragons.

I am such a downer, I know---but it's when D&D sails into anime waters, I have to jump ship.
Not sure why this feels like such a wrong-turn to me. :(
 
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TerribleSorcery

Should be playing D&D instead
Hmm, I wonder if you could reflavour all that Greyhawk Iuz material (ToEE, Tsojcanth, etc.) so the denizens of those dungeons were part of the establishment, and the PCs were acting in rebellion against that.
I have a link for you that is kinda related to this idea:

 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
Read up on this: https://eberron.fandom.com/wiki/Age_of_Demons

Ouch. Something is off here (for me). Too detailed? Too tidy? Or too cosmic-but-normal?

I also just can't do good dragons.

I am such a downer, I know---but it's when D&D sails into anime waters, I have to jump ship.
Not sure why this feels like such a wrong-turn to me. :(
That's a fan summary, not particularly well presented and with a certain amount of interpretation built into it. If the word "tidy" can be applied to anything you are doing in Eberron, you're doing it wrong. If you want to criticize something, criticize the intent as expressed by the maker.

The Age of Demons is a "before times" where nobody alive really knows what happened, or even exactly when it happened. The thirtyish Overlords (nobody knows how many there are, and for many not even their names or domains are known) are incarnations of evil. They are powerful beyond the ability of mortals, or even mortal armies, to combat. Less anime than "Night on Bald Mountain". They were defeated only because the immortal couatl sacrificed nearly all of their kind (save those with specific duties) to fuel the magics that bound them. They slumber beneath the earth, while their minions seek to fulfill the needs of prophecy to release them.

They are a device, not an opponent, more Sauron then Demogorgon. The Age of Demons is a source of artifacts and dungeons, and the existence of the Overlords provides motivations for the demons, devils, rakshasa and other fiends you encounter (which are all considered to be examples of the same kind of creature), so they aren't randomly committing acts of evil, but are committing acts of evil with a purpose. Or acts of good, which they expect will bring about evil in the long run.

Dragons can be good - to each other. But the "lesser" races like elves and humans are viewed more like lab rats or pets, or working animals like guard dogs and oxen. A good dragon might treat the dwarves he experiments on relatively, er, humanely, but he is still willing to sacrifice their lives, quality of life or sanity in the search for knowledge.
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
Wow man, Eberron looks complicated!
Well, sure, if you're trying to use the whole thing at once. There is a lot less going on at the local level; you are encouraged to pick just a couple of elements and not gum up the works trying to do everything at once.

It helps that the factions are "sticky"; once you use one you tend to remember it like a favourite NPC. And after you've been running Eberron campaigns for a decade or so you have knowledge of a lot of factions at your fingertips, and can usually pull one out that would be interested in whatever the PCs are doing at a given time.
 
Hmm, I wonder if you could reflavour all that Greyhawk Iuz material (ToEE, Tsojcanth, etc.) so the denizens of those dungeons were part of the establishment, and the PCs were acting in rebellion against that.
I certainly have been looking at some of that stuff. I am not a big fan of TOEE; just think it's awkwardly executed, and becomes way too grindy, with a certain sameness and lack of focus (that said, I am a big fan of Homlet, and find it close to the ideal when it comes to factions, movement and open endedness).

I have primarily been cribbing so far from City of Skulls & Iuz the Evil (I find Carl Sargent's design and plotting and open endedness to things, and ability to design high level adventures to be very aligned in how I think- Night Below is another fav of mine). I need to go back to Return to Castle Greyhawk as well. I can certainly see Iggwilv being a great protogonist in some shape as well.

I am thinking about 3-5 Demon Lords with differing aspects/powers/structures and vulnerabilities.
 
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