Book Fucking Talk

PrinceofNothing

High Executarch
Staff member
PoN is also very critical of Kelhus between the lines
Critical is a difficult word in terms of PoN, as its human characters are very ambiguous, few stand out as someone you are meant to root for, but you are essentially correct. Akka is probably his most humane, replete with weaknesses and failings, but possessed of a sort of universal decency and a doubt that PoN considers desirable, and contrasted with that we do have Kellhus, inhuman, amoral, all-powerful. Yet PoN is not a boring 90's reddit-atheist screed either, Kellhus's miracles are genuinely inexplicable, and Bakker is constantly forcing you out of your comfort zone by emulating, with virtuoso brilliance, the traditional lines of fantasy (and nothing less then excellence is required, otherwise you are just a lazy ironic hipster) only to break them.

==Spoilers==

Kellhus is both a monster AND the last best hope of humankind. In his unchained nature is the flawed nature of man revealed. I think only if you measure him against the evils of the Consult, servants of a race designed for Damnation, can this work, and it does, beautifully. Definetely a Fuck You book, but a grand and glorious one, forcing a sort of introspective loups, and not sacrificing its sobering message for some pet political cause. Grand.

Compare Cnaiur Urs Skiotha. Madman, Killer, Rapist. But who did not feel that spasm of awe when he walks into the howling maelstrom of the No-God, persuing his mad and futile vengeance even as the skin is stripped from his face. Easily the best fantasy of this millenium.
 

Pseudoephedrine

Should be playing D&D instead
So not a spoiler so much as a guess, and a credit to the complexities of Bakker's writing, but I'm actually not sure that Kellhus will end up being mankind's saviour in the series. I think this is part of the game Bakker is playing, an additional layer of deception that involves hijacking our familiarity with the mad bad superman who saves the day from lots of other genre fiction. I'm willing to be wrong in this guess, but I think if it's correct, it'll be a masterful choice and he hasn't let me down yet.
 

PrinceofNothing

High Executarch
Staff member
So not a spoiler so much as a guess, and a credit to the complexities of Bakker's writing, but I'm actually not sure that Kellhus will end up being mankind's saviour in the series. I think this is part of the game Bakker is playing, an additional layer of deception that involves hijacking our familiarity with the mad bad superman who saves the day from lots of other genre fiction. I'm willing to be wrong in this guess, but I think if it's correct, it'll be a masterful choice and he hasn't let me down yet.
Oh you'll remember that ending.
 

The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Have you read his other books? That psychopath novel made me wonder how RSB manages to go on living day-to-day without just shooting himself from existential despair.
 

Pseudoephedrine

Should be playing D&D instead
Oh, usually people who write very dark stuff are actually quite well-adjusted IRL because they get it out, while the people who write light stuff are much more troubled. Junji Ito will dance around in silly cat ear hats and so on in between drawing comics where the human body is mangled in graphic and disturbing ways, while Hideo Miyazaki is full of sadness even as he produces My Neighbour Totoro, etc.
 

The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Damn dudes! When did Canada get so expensive?! $20 for a shawarma platter! That's fukt! I can barely afford this here tasty bag of All-dressed Ruffles. I'm considering a small personal loan to get my kids a proper poutine!
Oh well. At least this country believes in air conditioning. My wife was back in Berlin in a house with no AC when that heat dome hit Europe 😬

Busting through some summer reading here:

'Brother Red' A third (or fourth?) in the series that started with 'Snakewood' by Adrian Selby. A world where all the fighters are jumped up on potions and fight each other with medieval chemical weapons. Solid tactical action sequences. Great politics and intrigue. A rough jargon learning curve.

'Hawkwood's Sword' Like, 4th or 5th in the 'Ill-Made Knight' series. 14th century, Hundred Years War and Italian Wars with delicious historical accuracy and incredible medieval martial arts action. Read all of these books if you're way into a low/no-magic campaign. That every one knight comes with a couple mounted men-at-arms, several archers and just a pack of horses really feeds into that old school henchmen vibe. Christian Cameron is absolutely nailing the Bernard Cornwell thing.

Lots of other sequels this summer. Hard to find new stuff since my Kindle recommends a lot of extremely lame straight-to-Amazon type books (Part 16 in the Legend of the Dust Empires of Dragonfoof Saga). What the hell happened to Jesse Bullington? I want another 'Sad Tale of the Brothers Grossbart'!
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
Damn dudes! When did Canada get so expensive?! $20 for a shawarma platter! That's fukt! I can barely afford this here tasty bag of All-dressed Ruffles. I'm considering a small personal loan to get my kids a proper poutine!
Drought in Western Canada last year + global pandemic + war in Ukraine >> reduced food supply from Ukrainian farmers + much food in Canada relies on ingredients from overseas during a supply chain crunch, including your shawarma. You may have to get your poutine from Burger King.
 

The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
You may have to get your poutine from Burger King.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

But yeah, holy cow, the grocery store shelves are strangely patchy. We're buying wood for the winter. Things are not good...
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

But yeah, holy cow, the grocery store shelves are strangely patchy. We're buying wood for the winter. Things are not good...
Yeah my last grocery order was modified because they were out of salt. Sort of identifying with preppers ATM.
 

The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Back from Germany?
yeah, a month on the rural Ontario farm with the folks. The deerflies are absolutely vicious this year. I think the frogs and dragonflies failed to breed this spring or something. Can't go anywhere on the back-40 without dressing like a bee-keeper...
My 13 hr flight to Ottawa ended up taking 3 days on the way here, so my anxiety about the return flight is slowly building at the moment...
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Well...it's home. :)

My flight to Chicago got cancelled hours before take off on me too --- first time that's ever happened in 40 some years to me. No crew, they said. Fine, but shouldn't you know that more than an hour before take off?

Seems the world is breaking down. Even a landscaper I tried to hire told me "No one wants to work!". I guess if you throw enough hate towards western civ...it will eventually go away.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Sure. History is cyclic and yet stagnent. But never in my lifetime have I heard it so much, and so unbiqutiously by both young and old (the fella I quoted was maybe 35 tops, another contractor/entrepreneur saying the same was only 21!). Stick your head in the sand because it doesn't align with your world view, but there's no deigning direct, first-hand personal experience versus the BS politically-minded propaganda put out by the world's newpapers since yellow journalism was first invented. Remember Hearst?

Keep your eyes glued to your phone and blame the rich. See how well that works out in the long run. Point being, if you want to be wealthy compared to the rest of the world---then compete (or lose)! Western governments can't waive a magic wand and make the Chinese work for us for free.

You can't eat virtual food. The West does not need more web designers (or corporate websites). Tidy little computer jobs are not for everyone --- if you aren't crunching numbers...get the heck off the computer while your at work! It's a toy, not a job! Jobs are suppose to be exhausting.

Of course merciless capitalism will course-correct --- it can just be painful to live through if you are on the losing side with a head full of "just" notions that reality informs your are nice fantasies. There no guaranty that Western Civ comes out ahead in this one. It's a pity too, but it had some nice inventions like: democracy, freedom of religion, all men are created equal, etc. We can only hope the next wave keeps a few of those around.

@PoN: I'm warning myself to stop with the political button-issues. Over and out.
 
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The Heretic

Should be playing D&D instead
Sure. History is cyclic and yet stagnent. But never in my lifetime have I heard it so much, and so unbiqutiously by both young and old (the fella I quoted was maybe 35 tops, another contractor/entrepreneur saying the same was only 21!). Stick your head in the sand because it doesn't align with your world view, but there's no deigning direct, first-hand personal experience versus the BS politically-minded propaganda put out by the world's newpapers since yellow journalism was first invented. Remember Hearst?
Lol. How do you know that your anecdotal examples weren't directly affected by this "yellow journalism" Also, please note that tirades are often not the best way to change minds. It could also be that these people are leaving out something important, like "No one wants to work anymore for the $3 per hour with no benefits that I'm offering!". It is a free market after all.

And truly, the media in all its splendor is a super-obnoxious fear spreader on both the left and right.
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
Sure. History is cyclic and yet stagnent. But never in my lifetime have I heard it so much, and so unbiqutiously by both young and old (the fella I quoted was maybe 35 tops, another contractor/entrepreneur saying the same was only 21!). Stick your head in the sand because it doesn't align with your world view, but there's no deigning direct, first-hand personal experience versus the BS politically-minded propaganda put out by the world's newpapers since yellow journalism was first invented. Remember Hearst?

Keep your eyes glued to your phone and blame the rich. See how well that works out in the long run. Point being, if you want to be wealthy compared to the rest of the world---then compete (or lose)! Western governments can't waive a magic wand and make the Chinese work for us for free.

You can't eat virtual food. The West does not need more web designers (or corporate websites). Tidy little computer jobs are not for everyone --- if you aren't crunching numbers...get the heck off the computer while your at work! It's a toy, not a job! Jobs are suppose to be exhausting.

Of course merciless capitalism will course-correct --- it can just be painful to live through if you are on the losing side with a head full of "just" notions that reality informs your are nice fantasies. There no guaranty that Western Civ comes out ahead in this one. It's a pity too, but it had some nice inventions like: democracy, freedom of religion, all men are created equal, etc. We can only hope the next wave keeps a few of those around.

@PoN: I'm warning myself to stop with the political button-issues. Over and out.
I yield to your lived experience, since I clearly have no relevant lived experience of my own on the topic of employers and employees.

Sadly, given my insular and narrow-minded nature I suppose I will never escape my enslavement to the Authority of mainstream media. My futile attempts to dO My OWn ResEARch seem to always have me valuing the opinions of people with relevant education and experience whose expertise is broadly recognized in their fields.

I am SHEEPLE, hear me roar!

PS Please post more about engineering topics, I have relatives who are engineers and I feel that makes me more than qualified to give you my opinions.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
You found all those newspaper clippings on your own that fast? Or was it curated by a modern partisan?

This has come up a bunch of times at work --- and you'll find that the only "experts" who get upset when you question their authority are quacks. Like Einstein is reported to have said: "If you can't explain it to your Grandmother, then you don't really understand it." I've actually said to other engineers at work who claimed "it's complicated...", and it usually ends the condescension.

Truly knowledgeable people enjoy educating others, no matter how small the baby steps or wild the analogies they have to take them through. Feynman was a great example of this. Smart people don't hide behind the mantle of their education or position. Only the frauds.
 
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