Forbidden Caverns of Archaia with 5 Torches Deep

marksable

*eyeroll*
Thanks to many of your advice I've been running a Forbidden Caverns of Archaia with 5 Torches Deep. We've done 3 sessions so far, next one Wed night. Someone asked for a report on Archaia as there aren't many, so here goes:

Session 1

The first session was about half a session 0 with character creation as we all got familiar with the rules. Five Torches Deep is basically a 5E hack that's XP for treasure, limited # of classes and much more deadly. It also has a focus on resource management. So far I like it - if it were up to me we'd be running Into the Odd or B/X but my players like 5E so this was the compromise.

THE PCS:
Ironjack - Human Thief
Corym Yinro - genderfluid Elf Mage
Ronk - Human Warrior
"Not Stacey" - halfling cleric

The main area in FCOA is a valley/canyon with dungeons, tombs etc. at different levels of elevations. The PCs started in the Southwest...things get progressivly harder as you move North and East. They'd been hired by Retep to retrieve artifacts, and had a bunch of potential dungeons to choose from. They chose Dungeon 1, "The Ruined Arch of the Skull".

Entering a ruined archway (area 1) they found small humanoid footprints but proceeded anyway. In room 7 they found empty chests that appeared to be broken open, but missed finding a gold broach worth 300 gp. They needed to pass a DC 14 INT check to find it. I think it might have helped if the room description (and thus I) mentioned flagstones up front.

In room 5 they found and avoided a pit trap. Pushing through a door into 6 they encountered a group of kobolds looking for supplies, and they started their first combat. PCs in FTD have very few HP (you roll 3d6 in order for stats, can switch 1 or 2, and your HP is between 4 and 6 plus or minus CON mod) and there were only 4 PCs, no hirelings. Monsters have half the HP of 5E but are otherwise the same, so at 1st level combat is still challenging. Especially since there is disadvantage for ranged weapons if you have torch rather than lantern light.

They were able to trick one kobold into falling into the pit trap, but had to fight the rest, with Ronk the warrior blocking the door into the room and taking most of the damage.. The mage lost their one spell (arcane arrow) - if you fail a spell check you lose it, which I like better than one use spells. Ronk lost consciousness and was revived by "Not Stacey", the halfling cleric who refused to tell anyone his true name. Not Stacey demanded a "trinket" for his healing, and was given a pebble that the mage levitated with a cantrip.

SESSION 2

Because S1 was a partly a session 0, the combat had to be paused until the following week. Eventually the Kobold's failed a morale role and the PC's took one - Nug prisoner. They bound and then tortured the kobold trying to get information out of him, like where treasure might be, but he truly didn't know. He only warned them about the danger that lay in The Redoubt of the Red Tails, the kobold HQ in the region, that he knew of a "moaning closet" in this dungeon and that there was an old serpent man who could make potions in The Tomb of the Serpent King (which I seeded into this campaign along with Barrowmaze).

Not Stacey the cleric decided to take Nug's name so he is now named Nug, and the kobold has no name. Nug the cleric cast a healing spell as a ritual while the rest of the party rested. Casting a spell as a ritual means you don't risk losing it, but the party was subject to random encounter rolls (which they passed). One thing I found confusing with FCOA is that there seems to be a wandering monster chart for the valley but it's not clear if it applies to the dungeons.

Rested, the players found room 4 sealed by an iron portcullis. Beyond it they saw a silver goblet surrounded by bones. The PCs were able to lift the portcullis by either a DC 30 strength check (which no character could have made without a natural 20) or by a combined strength 40, which they did and which I liked (otherwise, do you just keep rolling until you succeed?). They sent the kobold to pick up the goblet, only to see the bones form 8 skeletons. The PCs closed the portcullis and left the poor kobold to die at the skeletons hands. The skeletons had bows so they needed to avoid that area.

They followed up on the kobold's rumor of the "moaning closet" (9). First they checked an adjacent closet (10) and found an Archain star chart worth 250 gp. Their first treasure in 2 sessions. The door had a 25% change of collapsing the ceiling but they lucked out.

They next tried room 3 where Ironjack the thief discovered and disabled a crossbow trap.

The PCs pushed their luck and opened the closet where moans were coming from and - surprise - it contained 6 zombies. They were able to defeat them, but again, not an easy combat for 4 1st level FTD PCs. Most of it was because of Not Stacey/Nug lighting his oilskin on fire and throwing at one of the zombies, given the fact they were in a closet it made it hard for the other zombies to avoid. This meant the fire spread and only 1 or 2 could attack at a time.

Despite Ronk losing an ear (if you get to zero HP you roll on an injury table), no one was killed and the party was able to retrieve a backpack full of 321 gp from the flaming zombie corpses. The coins didn't melt or burn the PCs because Nug urinated on them.

The party returned to town with 571 gp/xp to split between them. One nice feature of FTD - if you want to return to down without going through every wilderness hex you can make a return roll. If it's a dangerous journey you can lose HP by the amount you roll under the DC, or "load" (items/encumbrance) if it's an "arduous" journey. They chose an arduous route and only lost 10 feet of chain.

(TO BE CONTINUED BECAUSE OF CHARACTER LIMIT)
 

marksable

*eyeroll*
SESSION 3

Session 3 started in the town of Eastdale, where they sold the star chart to Retep, who unknown to everyone but Ironjack the thief was not only an antiquities dealer but a thieves' guild representative who taxed Ironjack 10%. To keep it secret Ironjack pretended to trade it for rumors. Ironjack's player had to leave for the night but entrusted his character to the other players.

The party geared up - Ronk the warrior had sundered his shield (you can lost shield durability instead of HP if you choose to), arrows and a lantern so they no longer had disadvantage on ranged attacks (they missed almost all of their ranged attacks in the above combats).

They then headed to The Saucy Tart tavern. There they sat with Muirran the magician, who told them a bit about the other dungeons in the starting area of the valley, hoping for them to bring him scrolls, spellbooks and the like.

They learned the dungeon they were in was The Ruined Arch of the Skull, and that some other nearby dungeons were:
A - Redoubt of the Red Tails - that's a fortified Kobold lair
15 - The Black Cave of Yugluck
16 The Moldy Crypt
25 The Collossal Cave of the Fly-Dragons (giant dragon flies)
35 - The Forgotten Cave of the Arachnid God

Muirran also told them there was a staff that could allow them to teleport around the caverns and he'd help them use it since it was likely beyond their power.

They chose The Moldy Crypt and were able to avoid random encounters on their way there.

They found that the entrance had a mural that was dedicated to Dogma, god of scholars and learning. But it had been smashed and left painted over with a crude paiting of "The Fanged One", aka Impurax, a god of Death and Decay (also found in Barrowmaze). They entered anyway and descended a spiral staircase into a room covered with a bioluminescenct violet fungus. Hidden in a small cranny was a Faze Fungus that would have summounded giant blister beetles, but lucky for them they didn't find or mess with it.

They proceeded to room 9 (missing a secret door) where they saw a ziggurat of green skulls (which, as in Barrowmaze, are explosive) on an altar, and 6 Funeral Pyre Zombies. Want to know what a funeral pyre zombie is? Well, you need Barrowmaze Complete for that, the stats aren't included in this very expensive hardcover book. I have Barrowmaze but if you go to DriveThruRPG you'll see this is a common complaint to which the author has responded "just make up your own monster".

Anyway, they decided to avoid that room. One question if you're still reading this - how do you determine whether monsters detect PCs? I just did a reaction roll, I think but I'm not sure if there's a rule in 5E or FTD for that. I may decided that if you're not stealthy or they are not otherwise occupied they are going to see you (then roll a reaction roll to see if they attack).

The party headed southeast to room 3 which had 4 Giant Blister Beetles, but as the beetles were described as feeding on fungi and would only be summoned by the Faze Fungi I decided they didn't notice the PCs peeking in.

The room 2, where there were 30 Burial Alcoves with a Brass Belt Buckle worth 20gp, a dish with 20 gp and a bag of holding with 564 cp. The Bag of Holding is super valuable in a game where encumbrance is very important and you can't carry much.

"Guarding" them were Sallow Cysts, inanimate globules that explode causing possible paralysis within 30 feet. Ronk the warrior was paralyzed, so Corym went back 30 feet and used her bow to take out enough to retrieve the treasures.

The party then ran into a chasm between them and room 8, which contained a sarcophagus. How deep was the cavern? Forbidden Caverns of Archaia doesn't say...so I decided it was bottomless. I said they could leap it with an athletics chest but made clear it was death if they failed. They tied a rope around Nug the cleric, and I told them that if he failed the athletics check they could roll strength for each character holding the rope, and a success would mean not falling in the bottomless cavern.

Nug successfully leaped into the room, and listening to the sarcophagus he heard moans and explosions similar but not exactly the same as the ones the Sallow Cysts made. He got the sense something was trying to emerge from the sarcophagus.

Nug smartly decided to run and jump back across the chasm. He made it without incident, and saw a Coffer Corpse emerge from the sarcophagus with Cinnamon Mold growing on it. Again, the Coffer Corpse's stats are only found in Barrowmaze.

The party attacked with ranged weapons, and the coffer corpse tried to leap the chasm and fell to it's death.

It was then Nug noticed an urn in the sarcophagus with an Ebon Staff sticking out - much like the teleporting staff (or more accurately, part of it) that Muirran the mage had spoken to them about. So Nug decided to leap back across the chasm, with two of the PCs holding a rope tied around his waist.

Sadly, Nug failed his athletics check and the Ronk and Ironjack failed their strength checks (all DC 11) so Nug fell to his death. It's the first PC death in 3 campaign with this group (although I ran a 4th campaign where Nug's player lost a character). But they all took it well.

It was getting late so that seemed like a good place to stop for the evening, with one PC dead and another player having had to leave early.

Some impressions:

Five Torches Deep: I love the way it simplifies 5E and uses treasure for XP. It encourages smart play. PCs are fragile, not superheroes. I don't think I did justice in my descriptions to just how close the PCs game to dying in combat against low level opponents. The additional rules - spell misfire, dungeon return, load management etc. all enhance play. The rules are short and well organized...but could be better organized. An index would really help. That said, the creator answered a TON of questions on these boards from me.

Forbidden Caverns of Archaia (FCOA): So far so good? I chose this over Barrowmaze because I felt like my players and I would get sick of undead (especially since our last campaign featured Tomb of the Iron God, which was full of skeletons and zombies). It's somewhat vanilla in that most monsters are humanoids and undead, but there a bunch of original monsters/twists on traditional monsters (even if you need Barrowmaze for their stats).

Lots of interactivity in many the rooms but maybe too many empty rooms (which I left out of the play report to make this somewhat shorter).

I've never played B2 (which was another possibility for this campaign but it seemed limited in size/scope), but FCOA seems like it on steroids - a large valley/canyon with a ton of individual caves/tombs/dungeons/lairs on different elevation levels.

I'm using the 5E version of FCOA, and I'm a little worried about the difficulty with FTD gimping the characters. But in 3 sessions we've only lost 1 PC and the players have played smart so far. It seems like everyone is enjoying it. I'll continue these if there's interest. If you have any thoughts on how I'm running the rules/dungeons and/or how I'm writing these up I'm happy to hear your thoughts. I know I appreciate reading everyone else's actual play reports.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Sounds like fun, and thanks for taking the time to share.

Low-level characters on the edge of extinction---does it get any better?

My players are still (5+ years of playing) looking for that darn Bag of Holding.
(It's out there! ... Full of nasty stuff from a group of NPCs that used it as a prison.)
 

marksable

*eyeroll*
Low-level characters on the edge of extinction---does it get any better?
I don't think it does. And I give these players extra credit because they are used to 5E, but have taken to the death and danger well.

I've had a player in a B/X campaign who quite when his character died, and there was one in the 5E campaign I ran who would get scarily intense if his character was in danger.
 

gandalf_scion

*eyeroll*
I don't think it does. And I give these players extra credit because they are used to 5E, but have taken to the death and danger well.

I've had a player in a B/X campaign who quite when his character died, and there was one in the 5E campaign I ran who would get scarily intense if his character was in danger.
In any case, congrats to the players for taking the Kobold prisoner. He may not have known anything, but at least they tried to get some intel.

You've got to play B2.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
I've had a player in a B/X campaign who quite when his character died, and there was one in the 5E campaign I ran who would get scarily intense if his character was in danger.
Growing up is harder for some than others. It's usually the (lack of) parenting.
 
Last edited:

marksable

*eyeroll*
Session 4 Update:

THE PCS:
Ironjack - Human Thief
Corym Yinro - genderfluid Elf Mage
Ronk - Human Warrior
Nug - evil halfling zealot - DEAD, replaced by Tolaez, lawful good zealot

When last we left off, Nug the evil halfling zealot had fallen to his death after trying to leap back over a bottomless chasm Dungeon 16: The Moldy Crypt. He was immediately replaced by lawful good Toleaz (zealot spelled backwards - zealot is the name for the cleric class in Five Torches Deep before you reach level 3 and can specialize as a cleric, paladin or druid).

The new halfling was tossed across by Ronk the warrior, with the rope held by the two other characters. After some unsucessful attempts he made it and returned from the other side of the cavern with an Ebon Staff (a component of a magical artifact that allows fast travel, this piece functions as +1 quarterstaff by itself) and 50 Archain Pieces (ancient currency worth 25 gp each). I though they party might quit while they were ahead, but...

The party returned to a room (9) they had seen earlier. It was a ceremonial room filled with "funeral pyre" zombies and ziggurats made up of glowing skulls with emeralds in them. While the rest of the party waited in a narrow hallway outside, Ironjack the thief tried to stealth his way in to check out the emeralds but was discovered. The party one initiative, thankfully. In FTD (Five Torches Deep), initiative is just your DEX stat, so it's essentially the same for the party, only the monsters change.

The party backed into the narrow hallway so the funeral pyre zombies could only attack them one at a time. They lined up behind Ronk the warrior. This time they had a lantern with them - in FTD torchlight gives you disadvantage on ranged attacks.

Corym the elven mage was the first one to hit a zombie with arcane arrow (magic missle), only to discover that the first strike on a funeral pyre zombie causes a fiery explosion (which the zombies themselves are immune to). It also has the chance of making adjacent zombies ignite causing a chain reaction. Only two zombies exploded, and only one in range of the party, but that was enough to knock Ronk unconscious (reducing him to 0 HP).

In FTD, when you hit 0 XP you're unconscious and you die at the end of the fight or 1 minute, whichever is later) if not stablized or healed. Stabilization usually requires a roll, but Tolaez had a stabilize cantrip that does so without a roll. Very useful.

When you are stabilized or healed in FTD, you roll on an injury table. 20 means you are fully healed, 1 is death....the rest are interesting. In this case, Ronk got disadvantage on all check until rest. Life was only going to get harder for him.

Tolaez didn't have any ranged weapons or spells, but didn't need them as he ran up and healed Ronk with Suture (cure light wounds) while the rest of the party used missile attacks at the zombie in front of them.

Level one characters have only one spell, but 3 cantrips (not as powerful as 5E cantrips), so Tolaez) used the Providence cantrip to give +1 to their next roll when he wasn't healing.

Ironjack finished off the first zombie. Corym however missed with their next spell. That means you not only lose that spell, but you roll on a misfire table, which I love. Doing so caused her to wound Ironjack. He still took another zombie out.

But when Tolaez tried to heal him, he failed his spellcasting check and had a misfire. This caused a sphere of darkness to surround the party. The rules don't specify whether the sphere stays with the party or stays in place, but I ruled the latter because it seemed more interesting.

The party used the darkness to their advantage, stepping in it to make ranged attacks with disadvantage) then stepping out, giving them some time and space from the slower zombies.

But before Ronk could do this, he was clawed unconscious by another zombie. His injury roll said he lost a body part (GM's discretion). I'd let him lose an ear last session, this time I decided it was an eye). Tolaez lost his healing spell but was able to stabilize him before retreating out of the darkness.

Ronk bravely held the line and decided to attack the lead zombie rather than retreat into the darkness. He hit...but it caused the zombie to explode knocking him unconscious for the third time. Tolaez stabilized him again, but hisRonk he was addled, losing 1d6 INT (abilities take "weeks of rest and care" to restore). Ronk's INT was low anyway, but now it was down to a 1 (I assumed you couldn't have 0 or -1 as a stat). Tolaez was wounded after healing Ronk and knocked unconcious, losing a body part himself. I chose a nipple because I'm juvenile.

To his credit the player controlling Ronk played him even dumber now that he was 1 INT. This caused him to continue fighting when he could have retreated, and he was knocked unconscious for the 4th time in one session (5th if you include the week before). The rest of the party played it smart though, using the darkness, distance and narrow hallways to whittle the zombies down until they are all dead.

After combat Tolaez stabilized Ronk, but Ronk lost another limb - this time his off hand.

The PCs survived though. It would have been smarter for them to just head back since you get 0 xp from combat in FTD and they had gotten pretty substantial treasure at the end of last session and start of this one, but they felt it was in character and really wanted those gems. Without spoiling anything, trying to pry those gems from the skull ziggurats is very dangerous, so next session should be interesting.

I'm usually not a fan of combat taking an entire session - I tend to get bored as a GM. But we started at least an hour late. And it didn't feel as boring as 5E combat can be, where the players are powerful and the chance of an actual death lowers the stakes. This felt like a fight for survival, with the players understanding risks and using creativity as much as the limited (compared to 5E) tactical options.

So far I'm very happy with FTD. It's still early on in Forbidden Caverns of Archaia, pretty much straight dungeon crawling. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for things like factions and the larger lore/narrative to emerge. I don't need a ton of that, I like player driven stories, but I feel like just a bit would elevate the campaign.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
In FTD, when you hit 0 XP you're unconscious and you die at the end of the fight or 1 minute, whichever is later) if not stablized or healed. Stabilization usually requires a roll, but Tolaez had a stabilize cantrip that does so without a roll. Very useful.

When you are stabilized or healed in FTD, you roll on an injury table. 20 means you are fully healed, 1 is death....the rest are interesting. In this case, Ronk got disadvantage on all check until rest. Life was only going to get harder for him.
Heh. Not sure why this makes me smile.
 

marksable

*eyeroll*
Sorry it took so long to reply to this mAcular. Haven't been to this forum for a while.

It's been a while since I played Basic D&D, but I did run a year long campaign of B/X (with AD&D classes) and enjoyed it. I think we're now on something like week 12 of our weekly Five Torches Deep campaign, maybe more. I've lost track of time since I've been quarantined.

Mechanically, they are very different games. FTD is based of the 5E system, greatly simplified with gold for XP, some extra rules for things like supplies etc. that are geared toward dungeon crawling.

But, I feel like it's the closest a version of 5E has gotten to old school play. The aforementioned gold for XP, limited classes and character options, high(er) character mortality rate etc.

For me, I would have played B/X in the first place, but my group prefers 5E. FTD was a compromise after they tried Into the Odd and The Black Hack, which they felt didn't give them enough advancement, options etc.

We've settled into FTD now and both they and I are happy with it. We did have to make some adjustments, the main one being that the characters weren't advancing quickly enough (still level one after 10-15 sessions). So now when they get 1,000 gold, instead of splitting it 4 ways, everyone gets it.

I'd say that if you are already a B/X player there might not be that much upside to switching. But, if you are transitioning 5E players or GMs to old school gaming or want to use 5E compatible products it's a really good choice.

I'd add that the creator of Five Torches Deep has been super helpful both on this list and on Twitter in terms of answering questions I had, giving advice etc. I'm very appreciative of that personal touch. On top of that, according to him he's got a number of cool FTD supplements coming out - special rules for stealth, magic items and I believe a campaign setting.

Hope that answers your question.

Mark
 

marksable

*eyeroll*
So, haven't posted in a while even though my campaign has kept on going (and been one of the few sources of brightness as I'm quarantined alone in an apartment).

I've lost track of what session we're on, but here's an update/overview for people if they are interested.

Also, I'll put this in another post but I am looking for a new adventure as my group has gotten sick of dungeon crawling. Or as they put it, going to a room, checking for traps, fighting, rinse repeat. They are ok with that, but they need a break and more variety. I myself would like more role playing - NPCs and factions.

So if you've got recommendations for old school or OSR adventures that have more variety, please let me know. (Right now I'm thinking about Night's Dark Terror).

Anyway, here's a summary of what's happened so far:

The party started in the village of EASTDALE (from Forbidden Caverns of Archaia). Retep the antiquities dealer/thieves guild official and Murrion the mage are the major NPCs there that have been willing to buy stuff off the party and give them heads up on leads to potential treasures. And of course there's the Saucy Tart for carousing.

From there, the party explored two dungeons in the nearby valley known as THE FORBIDDEN CAVERNS OF ARCHAIA. They learned there's a vast network of caverns that are homebase to various groups of humanoids. They had a pet kobold but sacrificed in order to distract skeletons so they could get treasure.

Then they explored the TOMB OF THE SERPENT KINGS. They cleared most of it but decided to skip meeting the Snake Man Lich known as Xiximanter, even though he's known as a master of making potions. There's a tribe of fungus goblins there created by Xiximanter who once acknowledged Kip as their king before engaging in a mass suicide.

Murrion the Mage sent the party to Orlane to go to a MANSION (Skerples Magical Murder Mansion!) owned by the late Hubert Nibsley in Orlane. It's said to contain, among other treasures, a very powerful spellbook.

Going to ORLANE, the party met with Heinrich P'flem, nephew-in-law of the owner of the mansion. He too wants the party to recover the spellbook.

The party heard rumors that townsfolk were acting strange, children were disappearing. P'flem denied a connection between those things and the Mansion. They also heard rumors of potential allies in town: Ramne the Hermit who may be a good-aligned magic user, and two elves who the townsfolk treated with suspicion.

While the party spent the night at the Golden Grain Inn, they were ambushed and almost wiped out by Reptile God cultists. Their torchbearer disappeared, and their cleric was badly wounded. The innkeeper of The Slumbering Serpent took them in and went to look for your torchbearer but he too is missing. His wife wants the party to find him.

Since one of the cultists was a priestess, the party took went to The Temple of Merrika. They found it was occcupied by cultists, seemingly led by another cleric named Abramo who they killed. After rescuing Cirili Finlia, a child he'd abucted, the party learned all the cultists are people who have been charmed by Explicita Defilius, some kind of half-snake, half woman.. She may be the so-called Reptile God. There was a statue of her in the temple that was too heavy to carrry out.

The child told the party the cult's headquarters is somewhere between Orlane and Guido's fort to the north, but can't give an exact location. She told them that before she and her family were taken to the cult HQ, they were held in dungeons connected to the cellars of The Golden Grain Inn. She mentioned that there was a snake-woman statue there that was smaller than the one at the Temple.

The party went into the cellars, tried to break the statue apart so it could be carried out but wound up shattering it. They were able to make friends with the cult's neglected giant snake. Their last act was to finally join up with Ramne the hermit/mage, who said his pet weasel could help them find the lair of Cult of the Reptile God.

THOUGHTS:

-We started with the Forbidden Caverns of Archaia but it didn't seem to grab the party. I wish we'd started with either Barrowmaze (which has gotten better reviews, but I was worried was undead focused) or better yet Keep on the Borderlands.

-Tomb of the Serpent Kings was MUCH better. While the party has tired of dungeon crawling, there were lots of very cool moments there. Having run this and Kidnap the Archpriest in the previous campaign I'm a big Skerples fan and want him to write more modules.

-Speaking of which, they plan was to head to his Magical Murder Mansion. I decided it would be located in the same town as N1 The Cult of the Reptile God

-That lead to the party being ambushed. N1 isn't a bad module, but I realized too late that in the beginning part there's not nearly enough treasure to get you to the level you'd need to be to defeat the Reptile God (a naga) without the help of an uber-powerful NPC.

-It doesn't help that leveling seems slow in Five Torches Deep (which is gold for xp). Certainly it is compared to 5E, which I'm okay with. But 10-15 sessions in and the party has JUST hit level 2. I spoke to the creator of FTD on Twitter and he suggested having the party NOT divide gold for XP purposes. So if they find 1000 gold, they get 1000 xp instead of 250 or 200.

-What I like about FTD is that it allowed me to get my 5E players to play in an old school style. But, while I think 5E has too many options for characters resulting in overpowered players, my players feel that FTD as written has two few. They've felt that combat is not as interesting tactically. Hopefully now that they are level 2 and they'll advancing more quickly because I'm adjusting the treasure that will start to change. I'm also giving them the choice of 2 "features" instead of 1 when they reach 3rd and 7th levels.

-And because the rules for FTD are geared toward dungeon crawling - and to be fair, the adventures I've run have been dungeon crawls - they've grown a bit sick of it.

So - and I'm going to write a separate post asking for help on this - while the party and I are generally enjoying FTD and the campaign, I'm now looking for a 2nd level adventure that either isn't a dungeon crawl or has more to it than just searching rooms for traps and fighting. Strong NPCs an roleplaying opportunies.

-In addition to Archaia, Barrowmaze, Tomb of the Serpent Kings, Magical Murder Mansion, Castle Xyntillan and Cult of the Reptile God I had planted seeds for the following (or planned too): Keep on the Borderlands and Horror on the Hill (probably to much of a dungeon crawl), Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh (one of the other players is DM'ing the 5E version), and eventually Isle of Dread (too high level for 4 2nd level players).

So only Magical Murder mansion and Castle Xyntillan are still possibilities,but while they are more than a standard dungeon crawl I don't think there's much roleplaying so they may be out as well.

Again, adventure suggestions would be welcome.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Give Operation Unfathomable a try. It's gonzo as all get out, but looks like fun. It, Red Prophet Rising, and Castle X are on my short-list if I can ever get the PCs to deviate from their chosen path (currently retreading old stomping grounds).

It does sound like you've mixed it up quite a bit with town adventures. Friendly NPCs, with their host of problems, it a good way to get the party to buy-in to "hero-dom" and care about the campaign world.

Only 2nd level after 10 adventures is a little bit slow even for my *very* auster tastes. Sound like either the party is too big, Forbidden Caverns is too cinchy with the gold, or FTD has stepped hard on the level-curve. There should be a least a theif gettiong close to 3rd around now. Do they understand the equation GP=XP? Have they not gone for the treasure hauls?

Lastly if FTD is just not doing it, try Swords & Wizardry. It's just as easy to run as anything out there, and has withstood the test of time both as OD&D and in its current form.
 
Last edited:

marksable

*eyeroll*
Give Operation Unfathomable a try. It's gonzo as all get out, but looks like fun. It, Red Prophet Rising, and Castle X are on my short-list if I can ever get the PCs to deviate from their chosen path (currently retreading old stomping grounds).

It does sound like you've mixed it up quite a bit with town adventures. Friendly NPCs, with their host of problems, it a good way to get the party to buy-in to "hero-dom" and care about the campaign world.

Only 2nd level after 10 adventures is a little bit slow even for my *very* auster tastes. Sound like either the party is too big, Forbidden Caverns is too cinchy with the gold, or FTD has stepped hard on the level-curve. There should be a least a thief gettiong close to 3rd around now. Do they understand the equation GP=XP? Have they not gone for the treasure hauls?

Lastly if FTD is just not doing it, try Swords & Wizardry. It's just as easy to run as anything out there, and has withstood the test of time both as OD&D and in its current form.
I tried a bit of Operation Unfathomable a bit. I admire it's originality, but I think it would be too gonzo for the campaign we've been running so far, and I think the FTD conversion would be a little hard. 5E monsters I can convert directly by halving their XP, old school "vanilla" monsters I can convert by finding their 5E equivalent. Truly unique stuff would be more work.

We had some good town stuff in Eastdale, the town near Forbidden Caverns of Archaia. The problem we had when we moved to Orlane, site of Cult of the Reptile God, is that a large percentage of villagers are charmed to be part of the cult. So almost everyone was an adversary, and when captured interrogating them was of no use because they were magically compelled to stay silent.

If I had to run Reptile God over again, I would have started them in Orlane as a normal village, then slowly shown the effects of people getting charmed by the cult.

In terms of xp, I'm still unsure why it took so long to level. In FTD, every class levels the same, as follows
2 - 2500
3 - 5,000
4 - 10,000
5 - 20,000
6 - 30,000
7 - 50,000
8 - 75,000
9 - 100,000

They hired a cleric as a retainer who was getting a share, so it should have been 15,000 gold total to get to 2.

I do think that the two caves they hit in Archaia were light. Lots of empty rooms.

Serpent Kings was better, but I think I needed to multiply the treasure by 15 instead of 10. (Skerples does a good thing by telling you treasure is set for 200 gp/xp to get to level 2 so you can adjust accordingly. I mistakenly the thought it was 2000 xp to level 2, rather than 2500.)

And Cult of the Reptile God has very little treasure in the first half of the module. I wish someone had a database that tallied up treasure for old school modules, and that all OSR modules listed the total treasure at the beginning. Again, Skerples does this for his modules.

I think the main culprit for the slow pace of leveling is the pace of dungeon crawling itself. Specifically, constantly checking rooms for traps and long combats contributed to it. And remember that in old school D&D you at least got SOME xp for combat, you get none in FTD.

The players definitely understood the gold for XP and they played smarter because of that. As for Swords and Wizardry, I'd happily run that, B/X essentials or Labyrinth Lord. But, getting my players to go from 5E to FTD was a big enough ask. They are comfortable with the basic mechanics underlying both 5E and FTD. Having to do THACO charts etc. would only slow things down again. And they already tried Into the Odd and The Black Hack for me as favors and it hasn't stuck like FTD has.

They are a great party in terms of not only showing up week after week online, but playing smart, accepting bad outcomes, roleplaying well and just being good people. With the lack of 1st level combat options, I think they've missed the opportunity to roleplay rather than just roll play more (although when they have had opportunities, they've shined).

Red Prophet Rising is going to get strong consideration from me, if they can get to level 3 or close to it by the time they finish Cult of the Reptile God I've owned it for a while and I see they've updated the PDF to be more Roll20 friendly.

Castle X is on my list and I'm really curious to hear people's experiences playing it. It's so big that it's hard to get a sense of how it will play out without committing to a long read. Quickly looking it over it looks good, although I do wish it had a map for the town.

So thanks for that, and thanks for your suggestions not just in this reply but the others you've done. Even if I don't implement your suggestions they make me rethink things, and hopefully become a better DM.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Remember NPCs only get 1/2 share of XP (in 0e/1e).

FTD should give some XP for monsters. Seems like a stumble there.

With regards to gonzo, it's not too detrimental to allow wacky in the Mythic Underworld and "sane" in the civilized portions of the world. It's part of the draw for "going deep". When they emerge...they are "altered", bumped up a level or two, and a bit of a local celebrity (for a few days at least). It also allows for a change of tempo. It doesn't feel (to me) that it breaks game-balance or the aesthetic. Exotic places! You (as DM) just need to play it straight-faced---the world (however weird) is still the straight-man.

In my home campaign...(sorry I can't resist)...I have areas inside the really big dungeons where the party can rest and level-up (and get help from allies). This is necessary I think to mega-dungeon design, because some of it can get very one-way-ish. Easier to get in than out. The real trick to those Safe Zones is getting that far...

Operation Unfathomable has such a Safe Zone...I don't recall the name of the Village/Cavern...but it hasn't been released yet. Hopefully, some day.
 
Top