General Discussion

[The1True]

Should... should I just add random sentences to it?

skibidi.

 

[Malrex]

I recently restarted my WoW subscriptions and I am feeling very meh about the whole game. Part of it is the annoying changes to the GUI that makes hard to read ("Old man yells at clouds") but the bigger part of it is that it has all been done before. Get to the Earthen city. Yay. Go to neighboring town and do stupid fetch quests. Yay <snooze>. I left during Shadowlands. I think they should've ended it there. But money and all that.


The Heretic

I hear you. I stumbled upon Turtle WoW, which is free WOW classic pretty much with some extra areas (for example, a few more caverns in Wailing Caverns and other dungeons), changes to skill trees, etc. I didn't like WoW much after the third update, the lich king or whatever so stopped playing, but I still like the classic. And its free, so I don't mind playing for an hour and than a week later logging in and messing around on a writing break.
Although online, I usually just enjoy playin solo.
I've tried to like newer games, but just too many explosions and lights everywhere and can't see what I'm doing (looking at you Guild Wars). So I still find myself going back to the old games every few years--Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, etc. I sound like a total gamer, but I go through spurts of playing a few hours a week for a few months, then not playing anything at all for a few years. For the Horde! Anyways, sorry for going off topic.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

I sound like a total gamer

I don't know if "going back to some old games every few years" is really anyone's definition of a "gamer".

Gamers tend to play games... like, constantly. Especially new and popular ones. My wife is a gamer; if she's not playing BG3 or Cities Skylines or XCOM or whatever, she's nose-deep into one of her thousands of "cozy games". I just dropped a grand on a brand new top-of-the-line SteamDeck for her, since she plays so much.

My ex-wife was also a gamer, but much more competitively mainstream (Call of Duty, Fortnite, etc.). She was on that XBox literally daily and had a million fellow gamer buddies who'd play CoD/FN with her basically non-stop.

And of course, I am a gamer. I play daily, hours at a time. I used to play Battlefield 3 & 4 at the competitive league level, which was thousands of hours of playtime (not to mention running team practices and strategy planning sessions and whatnot). *That's* what a gamer is. Games are their lives.

 

[Malrex]

fair enough...hah. I used to be a gamer when I was younger...but now I like to hire artists, write, do maps, and make dozens of dimes publishing D&D shit.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

I guess tabletop games are also games. You could still consider yourself a "gamer" on that merit. You're a "gamer", just not a "gamer", you know?

Board games by that definition too. Anybody else here big into board games, or do y'all just do ttrpgs?

 

[Beoric]

I guess tabletop games are also games. You could still consider yourself a "gamer" on that merit. You're a "gamer", just not a "gamer", you know?

Board games by that definition too. Anybody else here big into board games, or do y'all just do ttrpgs?

Mostly TTRPGs. I don't have a healthy relationship with video games, so I don't really play them any more . I play some board games but not a lot.

 

[The1True]

Anybody else here big into board games, or do y'all just do ttrpgs?

I've been shopping online for a boardgame for a niece who really likes that sort of thing. Spent a couple of hours on Boardgame Geek noodling around last weekend. As a diehard table-flipper of the most unpleasant variety, I have to say, I REALLY don't understand boardgame people. Like, I went to one of Ottawa's boardgame bars last year and their boardgame concierge came by all enthusiastic about tokens, and bits and pieces, and board mechanics and I was like, no thanks, playing this here homebrew drinkin game!

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Like, I went to one of Ottawa's boardgame bars last year

You talking about The Loft/Level One? Love that place, but mostly for the retro videogames and decent beer selection. Since I started "collecting" board games (sitting at about 225), it has rendered board game cafes entirely redundant to me.

Suffice to say, I guess the answer is "no, 1True is not really into board games".

 

[The Heretic]

I hear you. I stumbled upon Turtle WoW, which is free WOW classic pretty much with some extra areas (for example, a few more caverns in Wailing Caverns and other dungeons), changes to skill trees, etc. I didn't like WoW much after the third update, the lich king or whatever so stopped playing, but I still like the classic. And its free, so I don't mind playing for an hour and than a week later logging in and messing around on a writing break.
Although online, I usually just enjoy playin solo.

Interesting! What didn't you like about Lich King? The setting or changes to game (or both)?

I played through all of them up to Dragon Isles. I'm an altoholic. I think it's the DM in me, needing to see how each class and/or race does in the game. Shadowlands was probably my favorite. It was a unique setting (the afterlife!) and it seemed to tie things up nicely until the 'your princess is in another castle' reveal with the final boss.

I usually play solo too.

I've tried to like newer games, but just too many explosions and lights everywhere and can't see what I'm doing (looking at you Guild Wars). So I still find myself going back to the old games every few years--Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, etc. I sound like a total gamer, but I go through spurts of playing a few hours a week for a few months, then not playing anything at all for a few years. For the Horde! Anyways, sorry for going off topic.

Video games are like movies for me. I go back to the classics I liked in my childhood (ie that's how your supposed to finish Ultima II?!?).

The Heretic

 

[The Heretic]

Uh yeah, that's grind-based MMOs for you. Literally the same thing over and over. I was into a couple over the years, but see them for what they are these days: flashing lights, crazy noises, hollow XP. Basically the same approach to every slot machine, CandyCrush-clone, and toddler's toy ever made.

Sometimes TTRPGs are not much better. My group made a choice that I didn't expect them to take (it involved rescuing orc children; I am a heretic, after all), and now they need to re-start the journey. I'm trying to think of encounters for the trek to the ruined steam resort city and it's...meh. Ooh, bandits again?!?

With WoW the main thing I was complaining about was the meta-plotting formula they've come up with each expansion.
Part One: Something bad happens! NPCs are in trouble! You're their only hope. Go to new place! Some factions don't trust you as outsiders while others do. Grind rep! The instances are extra hard because your gear sucks.
Part Two: A new max level area is opened up, with dailies and bind to account items so you can item up your alts. Dungeons are now easier with the better equipment. The tide is turning, you're starting to beat the new bad guys (that no one spoke about up until the beginning of this expansion)! Now its the, uh, dragon aunts and uncles trying to destroy the dragons! Or something.
Part Three: Oh no! More bad stuff happens, but now you open the last new max level area with even better equipment! Now you can solo most if not all of the instances from the prior expansion. Yay! And if you're into raiding, kill the final boss and find out that the princess is in another castle!

Then there are the themes that seem to get recycled over and over. These earthen, on their griffon mounts and with their thunderbolt hammers, are exactly like the dwarves in Cataclysm (uh, I forget the name). They're suspicious! Their towns look almost exactly like the towns of those dwarves! Is this deja vu or lazy writing!


The Heretic

 

[DangerousPuhson]

I'm trying to think of encounters for the trek to the ruined steam resort city and it's...meh. Ooh, bandits again?!?

I had a few minutes, so I took a stab at a couple encounters for you. Roll 1d6

1 - Rusting Hulks - bipedal steel war machines that resemble a hunched gorilla, with a pilot's seat in the "neck". Problem is, they're all rusted to shit from the persistent fog. One or more of them is a bit wonky too (in a dangerous way).

2 - "The Presence" - something unseen stalks creatures in the mists around the city. Smaller groups band together for protection, under the belief that the creature is deterred by numbers (it is not); the players may just encounter "the presence" feeding on one such group.

3 - Spontaneous Geyer Field - a muddy field of geysers needs crossing; problem is, their pattern is nearly impossible to predict. Also, giant buzzards overhead freaking love a boiled meal, and get real aggressive when they notice nobody dying.

4 - The Sky Tower - a thin and crooked 3-storey tower somehow floats above on a small cloud - and then promptly hits a very tall spire of rock and summarily crashes into the ground. The legless torso of a very angry and embarassed lich crawls around the rubble trying to recover what it can.

5 - Whistle Dogs - a pack of blind, wolf-like creatures that are attracted to sound. Their presence is telegraphed by a persistent 300' aura of dense fog that surrounds them, as well as a "whistling"-type howl they make when they sense prey. All wildlife goes dead quiet too.

6 - Bandits...Again? - Literally the exact party of bandits the players just destroyed. Like, the very same guys, somehow alive and fighting again. Turns out they're being regurgitated en-masse from some kind of fleshy pods nearby.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

The legless torso of a very angry and embarassed lich

A demi-lich - get it?

 

[Malrex]

Interesting! What didn't you like about Lich King? The setting or changes to game (or both)?

I played through all of them up to Dragon Isles. I'm an altoholic. I think it's the DM in me, needing to see how each class and/or race does in the game. Shadowlands was probably my favorite. It was a unique setting (the afterlife!) and it seemed to tie things up nicely until the 'your princess is in another castle' reveal with the final boss.

I usually play solo too.



Video games are like movies for me. I go back to the classics I liked in my childhood (ie that's how your supposed to finish Ultima II?!?).

The Heretic

Sorry…I meant to say…I liked Lich King but everything after that I didn’t care for, which isn’t too fair to say since I didn’t spend a lot of time with it. I blame the pandas. And I’m a altoholic too!

 

[grodog]

Speaking of which, I could really use some comfort shopping, but it's been a dogs age since someone's put out some exciting, super deluxe, The Best megadungeon. [snip] Anyway; taking recommendations...

Newest ones off the top of my head that I’m aware of are:

- Khosura, from Gabor
- Palace of the Silver Prince, from Huso
- Gunderholfen bundle, from G. Hawkins

A copy of Dungeon Geomorphs is like having infinite megadungeons!
Just kidding. Nobody uses dungeon geomorphs.

Ha!: we’ve been publishing new geos (including 3D ones!) in The Twisting Stair, and I continue to play with them from time to time:

Allan.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Ha!: we’ve been publishing new geos (including 3D ones!

Ok, now I'm curious to see a 3-D geomorph... I don't recall ever coming across one before.

 

[grodog]

Ok, now I'm curious to see a 3-D geomorph... I don't recall ever coming across one before.

Etol Otus did some stupidly-rare ones before joining TSR, that I’ve built a level using:

Some info about Erol’s at https://www.afterglow2.com/Product/FAE.htm

Our TTS#3 geos have stairs, trapdoors, chimneys, and other inter-level transit points on them, so that you can modularly stack them within or between levels. Ordering info at https://grodog.blogspot.com/2018/02/the-twisting-stair-3-spring-2018.html if you’re curious (and TTS#4 is in-progress, with a GaryCon 2025 target release date—“that is not dead which can eternal lie…” and all that ).

Allan.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Ah I see now. Yeah, for whatever reason my mind went immediately to "3-d = isometric". Those look pretty spiffy too though.

 

[The1True]

- Khosura, from Gabor
- Palace of the Silver Prince, from Huso
- Gunderholfen bundle, from G. Hawkins

I've got Gunderholfen and a couple of the nearby adventures. Great stuff.
Some day I'll save up enough of my allowance to pick up a bunch of Mr. Huso's gorgeous books. Some day...
I will defo look into Khosura (why have I not seen a review for this?), I LOVED Castle Xyntillan, thanks!

 

[Beoric]

Just dropping this here in case anyone is interested: https://www.medievalists.net/2025/01/medieval-police-chiefs-when-justice-was-for-sale/

 

[Beoric]

I'm having trouble getting this posted; the site seems fine with my second paragraph but doesn't like my first?

Ugh, I give up. Here is a cropped screenshot of it.
View attachment 1423

Apropos this idea (and this was frankly a surprise to me), the latest blog post from Bret Devereaux suggests that this was more or less a big part of ancient and medieval European economies. That is, people who didn't necessarily have access to coinage would pay each other in goods or services, but they way they determined how much a good or service was worth, was to value it according to how much they would have paid if they did have coins. So if I gave you a chicken, you and I had a notional idea of the value of that chicken was in in copper (say, 3 cp per the 1e PHB), so when the harvest came in and you have grain to give, you would give me 3 cp worth of grain.

Apparently this practice significantly predated the minting of coins, and started out by assigning each transaction a particular weight of precious metal. So my "novel" social capital mechanic may actually be 2,700ish years old.

Also, tell me this isn't gameable content:

And assuming this is a setting where coinage has been invented, the Big Man certainly has access to a sufficient amount to pay simply pay in cash for services rendered dealing with that Owlbear his retainers kept failing to track.

But the Big Man would probably rather ‘pay’ your adventurers differently. After all, remember that the Big Man is running a business which converts agricultural surplus (extracted in rents) into military power (men, horses, weapons, armor) and legitimacy (often conferred with extravagant gifts: jewelry and such). So while he could simply transact business and pay you in silver and send you on your way, it would be a lot easier to compensate you with what he has as well: he might gift you a sword or set of armor from his armory, or a horse from his stables.

That gift isn’t just easier for him, it comes with broader social implications which are also better for him and for you. Whereas payment in money might not incur any great obligation, the exchange of gifts here – you have solved a problem, he has given you something in return – creates a social obligation, a bond between you, especially if the value of the gift exceeds the value of the service. You are now obligated to help out again, in the future, should he ask, out of ‘gratitude’ for the ‘gift’ (and for such services, you will receive more ‘gifts’). Meanwhile, remember up top about how much one’s place in the political economy matters for how well one is paid – just being a more important kind of person in these societies21 could radically change how you were compensated and thus your station in life?

Well, unlike a few coins, those gifts can change who you are: a man with a strong arm is a peasant; a man with a strong arm, gifted mail and a weapon is a man-at-arms, whose station entitles them to better treatment. That same man, gifted a horse and a lance, by the Big Man is a knight (or substitute the culturally appropriate moniker for minor mounted military aristocrat). That’s great for you – far better than just a few coins that make you merely a momentarily rich peasant – but also great for the Big Man who just bought himself a minor military aristocrat (remember: you’re obligated to be grateful for his generosity and to respond if he calls), minted out of stores of weapons he was keeping for just such an occasion.

EDIT: Note that this is a good reason to place a monetary value on magic items, even if you don't have magic item shops in your game. You as a DM may want to be able to value the +3 panoply the lord gives to a PC.