Importance of torchlight

Yes, dungeons by necessity have to compartmentalize, otherwise you don't have a dungeon - you have a scattered mob, or a really big lair.

Lots of tools for this: doors/walls/rooms, proximity, visibility range, lack of foreknowledge, dynamic faction developments, sentries/patrols/alarms, messengers, migrations, stairs/levels, dungeon restocking, access control, response times, visual or auditory obfuscations, etc.
I see a lot of "classic" or "osr" dungeons with a dearth of doors, or much in the way of distances between encounters, and yet no explanation as to why the encounters stay in their boxes. Designing exclusively for theater of the mind can make for sloppy maps.
 
Kinda, though the gripe against how modern editions handle darkvision essentially loses all water if weighed by this metric, as darkvision is likewise limited to a certain distance (generally the same as using a torch), meaning that any tension provided by relying on torch-based visibility is still present in games without torches as the distance of visibility remains comparable - the only actual danger being not having brought enough torches (which is always solved by that one player who spends like 5gp to buy enough torches to burn for a whole year, making torch logistics a virtual non-issue even in old-school play). For this reason, I tend to nix light management unless pertinent (for instance, yesterday my player's triggered the old "lit a torch in a gas pocket" trap, even though 4 of the 5 characters have darkvision).
Though a lot about light and vision since we left off this topic. Lights matters only if you remove darkvision.

IRL, creatures that rely on vision for perception cannot see in the dark. The concept of infravision or darkvision seems bizarre to me, and it has negative effects of exploration, stealth, and combat. Lowlight vision does make sense for creatures like dwarves who spend years at a time underground. In my own system, lowlight vision removes penalties to perception in dim light.

If PCs and the monsters both have to carry torches, they are easy to spot by a scout moving carefully in the dark, and they can be sniped. A thief can also hide in shadows effectively by slipping outside the range of torchlight. Torches are cheap, and magical light is easy, so those torch logistics are pretty irrelevant like you said. But someone has to carry that torch in combat. That person sacrifices one fighting hand. Hopefully it is an expendable hireling because he will be a primary target. (If leveling costs are high, a party may not be able to afford a whole lot of expendable hirelings.) Or you could give the torch to a tanky character as a way to draw fire away from spellcasters, but you lose some DPR from that fighter-type character.

This stuff is effortless to track on a VTT and hard with theater of mind. Infra/darkvision was probably created to keep things simpler, so how you use lighting and vision may have a lot to do with how you play and whether you like tactical combat.
 
This stuff is effortless to track on a VTT and hard with theater of mind. Infra/darkvision was probably created to keep things simpler, so how you use lighting and vision may have a lot to do with how you play and whether you like tactical combat.
You're probably onto something there about light being an old-school way to restrict vision because the game's "technology" of the time was graph paper. It does make it easier for the DM (who needs to describe everything verbally) to narrow their field of focus and limit the party's considerations/actions to only the immediate surroundings. Whereas with something like a VTT you see the whole room, right upfront, usually in good detail. It's because of this that I consider light source radii to be a mostly vestigial thing, albeit good for creating tension in *very* specific situations. I balk at the idea that presence or absence of light sources in general makes the adventure any better or worse though, unless the adventure is tailored specifically to fuck around with light in a meaningful way.

Unrelated note: I love your forum picture - your dog (assuming) looks like my dog, except mine is going white with age. Super cute.
 
I wrote a blog post about it a little bit half way down in my post

But I saw a short video and to me it shows the importance of torchlight ... Watch the short video here.
Thought Id share.
i read but did not watch. i'm in favor of using resource management as a way of adding tension and gravity to the game--i always think of the scene in indiana jones where the torches dwindle and the snakes press toward indy and Marion.
 
i always think of the scene in indiana jones where the torches dwindle and the snakes press toward indy and Marion.
Tough to translate to TTRPG play though. That scene works because we can watch it - if you describe the scene in a game, it basically loses the tension because of the format of tabletop play.

How you think it's going to go:

DM - "Indiana Jones and Marion are in a pit surrounded by darkness except for their lone sputtering torch. As the torch flickers, it casts dancing shadows across the forms of hundreds - possibly thousands - of snakes wriggling closer towards the two of them. The radius of the light begins to shrink as the torch dwindles to embers; as the radius shrinks, the snakes press in to fill the darkness and doom the pair to certain death."

Players gasp, curse, faint etc.

How it's actually going to go:

DM - "Indiana and Marion are trapped at the bottom of a dark well with their last torch, surrounded by the writhing-

Player 1: "Does the well have water in it? I thought we were in a desert? If there's water here I want to dive underneath"

DM - "No it's a dry, well more of a hole. Surrounding Marion and Indy are thousands of snakes that are being kept at bay by the sputtering light of the torch"

Player 2 - "Oh, are the snakes scared of light or something? I light another torch"

DM - "You have no more torches"

Player 1 - "I'm pretty sure I bought some in town... didn't I buy some?"

Player 2 - "Pretty sure"

Player 3 - "I Cast Light on a rope and throw it to the pair"

DM - "Wait guys... you're supposed be feeling tension"
 
Player 3 - "I Cast Light on a rope and throw it to the pair"
I don't know about Indy and some snakes, however, if you have 1) no infravision 2) light using a spell slot like it used to 3) someone having to hold the torch in one hand in place of weapon/shield/focus 4) chance to drop torch if you take damage 5) some water pooled on the ground 6) character holding the light (or linkboy) being a prime target 7) no way to remove a torch from a container during combat... now you have some strategy and tactical combat. I realize many people don't care about that when they play d&d, which is fine. But if you care about it, tracking light makes exploring more challenging and interesting.
 
Tough to translate to TTRPG play though. That scene works because we can watch it - if you describe the scene in a game, it basically loses the tension because of the format of tabletop play.

How you think it's going to go:

DM - "Indiana Jones and Marion are in a pit surrounded by darkness except for their lone sputtering torch. As the torch flickers, it casts dancing shadows across the forms of hundreds - possibly thousands - of snakes wriggling closer towards the two of them. The radius of the light begins to shrink as the torch dwindles to embers; as the radius shrinks, the snakes press in to fill the darkness and doom the pair to certain death."

Players gasp, curse, faint etc.

How it's actually going to go:

DM - "Indiana and Marion are trapped at the bottom of a dark well with their last torch, surrounded by the writhing-

Player 1: "Does the well have water in it? I thought we were in a desert? If there's water here I want to dive underneath"

DM - "No it's a dry, well more of a hole. Surrounding Marion and Indy are thousands of snakes that are being kept at bay by the sputtering light of the torch"

Player 2 - "Oh, are the snakes scared of light or something? I light another torch"

DM - "You have no more torches"

Player 1 - "I'm pretty sure I bought some in town... didn't I buy some?"

Player 2 - "Pretty sure"

Player 3 - "I Cast Light on a rope and throw it to the pair"

DM - "Wait guys... you're supposed be feeling tension"
Use a VTT and shrink the radius of their torchlight and they will be feeling tension in a hurry.

Even without that, set a 10 minute timer until they have no light, and they will also feel tension.

The real YMMV issue with the scenario is it amounts to, "Figure out the light situation or it's a TPK." A lot of tables would have a problem with that, at a minimum you need to prepare your players for that eventuality long before it comes up. If it is all agreed in advance, and the players know the danger, I'm pretty confident that "last torch is going out you are about to die" would have them feeling tension.

Also, it wasn't a well.
 
I don't know about Indy and some snakes, however, if you have 1) no infravision 2) light using a spell slot like it used to 3) someone having to hold the torch in one hand in place of weapon/shield/focus 4) chance to drop torch if you take damage 5) some water pooled on the ground 6) character holding the light (or linkboy) being a prime target 7) no way to remove a torch from a container during combat... now you have some strategy and tactical combat. I realize many people don't care about that when they play d&d, which is fine. But if you care about it, tracking light makes exploring more challenging and interesting.
If your scenario only becomes tense after having to add 7 different caveats to make it tense, then maybe it's not the ideal route for generating tension. I'm not saying that threatening the party with dwindling torches can't generate tension - I'm just saying it shouldn't be the primary way to generate tension in your game. Logistic shortfalls are not a long-term way to keep your game tense, since they can be immediately neutralized as a threat by simply bringing more shit with you (or even mitigating just one one of the seven conditions you've listed above).

That torch situation with the snakes sounds scary, until you realize it is solved entirely by using a lamp instead of a torch. Or even just having another torch, which are one of the cheapest and most easily sourced items in the game. All it takes is one PC who says "I also light a torch when so-and-so lights a torch", and your scary deadly scenario is entirely toothless.
 
If your scenario only becomes tense after having to add 7 different caveats to make it tense, then maybe it's not the ideal route for generating tension. I'm not saying that threatening the party with dwindling torches can't generate tension - I'm just saying it shouldn't be the primary way to generate tension in your game. Logistic shortfalls are not a long-term way to keep your game tense, since they can be immediately neutralized as a threat by simply bringing more shit with you (or even mitigating just one one of the seven conditions you've listed above).

That torch situation with the snakes sounds scary, until you realize it is solved entirely by using a lamp instead of a torch. Or even just having another torch, which are one of the cheapest and most easily sourced items in the game. All it takes is one PC who says "I also light a torch when so-and-so lights a torch", and your scary deadly scenario is entirely toothless.
You are right that patching and house ruling a system 7 ways that doesn't support the type of game or the mood you want is not very effective. At least in my experience. You have to find a system that supports it or write one.
 
I don't know about Indy and some snakes, however, if you have ... 3) someone having to hold the torch in one hand in place of weapon/shield/focus 4) chance to drop torch if you take damage ....
I mean, if I was on team monster and had infravision/darkvision, I would attack the torch.

The cave they were being trapped in with the snakes was called the "Well of Souls"- https://indianajones.fandom.com/wiki/Well_of_the_Souls
Still not a well. An actual well would be very confining, a much bigger problem.

That torch situation with the snakes sounds scary, until you realize it is solved entirely by using a lamp instead of a torch.
You mean solved because the snakes recoil from the exposed fire and heat of a torch, which is also on a stick so you can waive it at them without getting too close, so if you had a lamp instead you would already be dead?
 
It's literally called a "well" in the film, you're just nitpicking.

And yeah still solved with a lamp... or is burning oil no longer the default "fix it" button for these situations?
 
It's literally called a "well" in the film, you're just nitpicking.

And yeah still solved with a lamp... or is burning oil no longer the default "fix it" button for these situations?
Have you ever tried to pour kerosene out of a burning lamp? I haven't, even though I used them a lot as a kid (rural area, lots of power outages), because that would be incredibly stupid and dangerous. And if you manage to pour it without immolating yourself, are you going to use the lamp to light it? How does that work?
 
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In D&D? It usually works like this:

Player: "I want to dump the oil from our lamp onto the ground and then light it on fire"

DM: "Yeah ok"
 
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