Information Transfer - Home vs Published EDIT: Move to Evocative

bryce0lynch

i fucking hate writing ...
Staff member
EDIT: Is this the introduction to evocative writing? Because it's really fucking similar to the book introduction.

The title of this book is "Writing Adventures for Publication." The other, more accurate, title was going to be "Writing adventures that you plan to have someone else run" but that didn't seem as pithy. A substantial amount of the advice herein can be used by a DM writing an adventure for their own use, but that's not the intent of the book, for good reason.

When you write an adventure that you intend for someone else to use there is an entirely new problem you have to face: the transfer of intent. When you come up with an idea for a room you have to get it out of your head and down on paper in such a way that the DM reading it can share your vision for the room and transfer it to the players. That's a substantially different problem than a DM writing an adventure for their own use.

When I create adventures it looks like some jumbled notes, almost a list, on a paper. It might say "R12. Chasm, bridge." When you read that how would you run the room? Did you know that I meant a rope bridge, fraying, over a chasm full of darkness, a chill wind gusting up, with some orange glow on the other side, maybe form a fire or torch? No, of course not. You had no way of knowing that. But that's what I meant when I wrote it. My notes were meant to spur my memory. I knew exactly what I wanted the room to be, I just needed a little jog to my memory.

But, as a designer writing for someone else, they don't know what you mean. They can't see the picture in your head. All they know is what's on the page. When you write for someone else you have to communicate not only the facts of the room but how the room feels, the entire picture in your head. The vibe behind the room. If you do a good job then the DM reading it understands the room at a very deep level. They know all of the atmosphere and feelings that the room is supposed to invoke. Then they can (try to) communicate that to their players.

This is incredibly difficult. I've reviewed so many adventures in which you can tell the designer wanted to communicate something more than what they actually did on the page. Boring, staid room descriptions that, no doubt, were excitedly alive in their creators head. But they didn't get it down on paper in a way that transferred that vibe to the DM. An evocative description is both hard and an incredible wonder when you get it right.

When I talk about evocative writing that's what I mean. There are many ways to accomplish it. One trap is writing too many words. We think that by describing everything it will somehow communicate what we see in our heads. In reality, it generally comes off boring with over-wrought descriptions, and commits the sin of Not Scanning Well.

[Is it worth it to comment more, maybe in the footnotes, on the danger of a home DM writing too much, to the extent we can't play a game this week because the adventure isn't ready? Maybe in a different section, later on.]
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
How about these titles:

"Experience Points: A Field Guide on Writing Adventures for Publication"

or

"Pit Traps: How to Avoiding Falling for Common Mistakes when Writing Adventures for Publication"

Too cheesy?
 
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Malrex

So ... slow work day? Every day?
There's a lot going on with this section, and I always felt weird inserting an opinion of this area of the forums, but oh well, I'm going to today.

There's this balance beam, like from middle school, that you have to walk across. You don't necessarily know the balance beam exists though until after you get a honest review. The writer needs to understand--that people playing the game, generally know how to play the game. Sounds dumb, but its true and that idea gets lost. When writing for someone else, it's like you said:

"One trap is writing too many words. We think that by describing everything it will somehow communicate what we see in our heads. In reality, it generally comes off boring with over-wrought descriptions, and commits the sin of Not Scanning Well."

I'd argue that the 'trap' is not necessarily just the descriptions of a room that you are trying to get out of your head and put on paper, or that we believe describing everything somehow communicates whats in our heads better. It's also the actual dungeon traps and describing them...the rules....the "if, thens", the "following the Ikea Furniture Instruction Manual" mentality. Those are part of the over-communication piece as well. There's this trap that you want everything to be understood. A 'fear' that someone isn't going to 'get it' or understand. One can think like that because you got this pressure because you are trying to sell something, so you want to make sure it's clear and understandable so that people feel they get their money's worth. So then you fall in that trap of explaining everything (usually with the intent of helping the DM)--it can even lead to backstory or explaining a monster's characteristics.

No---in my opinion, it's not worth commenting that a home DM writes too much and the adventure won't be ready. I'd argue that problem doesn't exist. Home DM's don't feel that "pressure" of writing for someone else...they know worse case scenario, they can wing it for the evening. Home DM's CAN write chasm, bridge--cause they can see the movie in their heads of what it looks like as it pertains to their adventure.

I DO think its worth implying that there needs to be some confidence that the "others" know how to play the game (unless the writer is attempting to write a beginner DM type adventure).
Pit, 1d6 damage. ---that can work! Overcoming that fear of explaining that the pit operates after 50 lbs. crosses it, or that the lids collapse after the third person steps on it....that's the trick. Provide the idea and have that confidence that the DM or the "others" know the game well enough that they can roll with the idea and make it work. Once the author grasps that--they can focus more on scannability and being more thoughtful on word choice for being evocative.

You are also combining evocative writing with scanning. I can write a huge long paragraph that's evocative--but that doesn't fit the bill for an adventure with the aim of ease of use. Or I can write 'chasm, bridge' for good scanning and that doesn't work for being evocative. I'd split up those sections. The Evocative section...talk about evocative writing--explain it! How is evocative different from flowery language or is there a danger of toppling the balance of being too evocative vs. clarity? Give some examples. Explain the importance of finding those words that creates or bursts into a mental image for the reader. Talk about sticky here too....

Then talk about the importance of scanning--bolding, indents, etc. Talk about how Italics is on the right path, however it has the faults of being too hard to read if its used for a long section.

Then also talk about the importance of scanning for maps--but leave that in a map section/chapter.

Writing Adventures for Publication....this is not a evocative title. It's a great sub-title though as it explains what the book is...but I like squeen's titles a little better--it looks more interesting to me. Or how about:

Title: Don't be An Asshole
Sub-title: Writing Adventures for Publication

Ok, maybe that doesn't work but it gets people's attention...I've always been bad with titles.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
On Malrex's (very good) points (not his Clown example..heh.):

1) It did 'click' for me in the little public exercise for the 'Safe Room', you shouldn't treat your audience like rubes. Trust them.

2) Evocative is so elusive a concept. Good examples would help.
 

bryce0lynch

i fucking hate writing ...
Staff member
I'llhave to parse the Malrex response more, but ...

>>"No---in my opinion, it's not worth commenting that a home DM writes too much and the adventure won't be ready. I'd argue that problem doesn't exist. Home DM's don't feel that "pressure" of writing for someone else...they know worse case scenario, they can wing it for the evening. "

I literally play in a guys game tha does this, which is why I put it in. "We can't play yet, I haven't written the adventure." a month later, show up at his house, he has a printed out book.

But, we can also argue on jurisdictional grounds: this is a book about publishing not about home adventures. So, Malrex comment still valid.
 

Malrex

So ... slow work day? Every day?
Yes...but Bryce....how closely did you look at that book? Could it be just a telephone book with a different cover on it? hmmm? Perhaps your friend just didn't want to play for a month...
 

bryce0lynch

i fucking hate writing ...
Staff member
Yes...but Bryce....how closely did you look at that book? Could it be just a telephone book with a different cover on it? hmmm? Perhaps your friend just didn't want to play for a month...
:( ... no one loves me
 

bryce0lynch

i fucking hate writing ...
Staff member
, and I always felt weird inserting an opinion of this area of the forums, ...
Weird? That's the entire reason the forum exists, in service of these sections. Everything else is Off Topic. :)


The writer needs to understand--that people playing the game, generally know how to play the game.
Right. There's this trend to NOT leverage the DM, which seems weird to me, like the designer is combatting the DM almost. "Lets keep the DM from fucking up my adventure."

Gonna steal this.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
I think it's even more than that---DMs (even ones using pregenerated adventures) also want some room to maneuver and insert their own creativity. The designer should probably resist the urge to try and "lock the design down" to its creator's vision.

EDIT: Here's a collary: I'm a bad (or at least forgetful) DM, so I tend to want to insert mechanics into the adventure text (e.g. 'roll a d20 vs. XX for this', or 'save or take an additional d6 fire-damage per round until the flames are snuffed out).

Is that wrong/redundant?
It is not system agnostic enough?
 
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Malrex

So ... slow work day? Every day?
Yeah....it's a weird battle, that no one realizes they are fighting. The designer thinks they are helping the DM by being very clear with everything and 'locking the design down'. The DM wants to have room to maneuver. The trick is getting the designer to 'loosen up', realize people know how to play the game and just throw out the ideas in a organized, evocative fashion that a DM can run with---it can be hard!

I just did a review over on Dragonsfoot where the designer described a pit:

“…a hidden pit which opens if more than 50 pounds of pressure is exerted onto the top, such as from someone stepping on it (a spear thrust or push from a 10-foot pole will not trigger it unless the wielder has a 14 or greater Strength). The pit drops onto spikes in the tower basement (Area 3b); those falling into it receive 1d6 + 1d8 damage (fall + an assumed 1d2 spikes at 1d4 damage each).”

My comment on that was:
"Just provide the idea, and trust the DM to know how to run with it.
Spiked Pit, 1d6 damage, 2d4 damage for spikes. Done."

To me, the designer was clearly trying to help the DM. I totally understand why the designer went into the explanation. I did the same thing with Nevermore Mines--trying to explain everything and why. You can see it with the clown example. Traps are scary...characters might die...so explaining traps helps the DM have some ammo to use if characters start complaining...right? But I used a 10 foot pole!! Nope..sorry, you need at least 14 strength...says so right here. Or, why is this clown regenerating? oh because it used to be a troll or whatever...

But the truth of the matter, is the DM is going to run it how they want...they might have their own rules or vision on how pit traps should be used. Or they may think a regenerating clown is dumb and not use it or change it. And the designer, has good intent, but just ends up just cluttering up the adventure.

squeen--those mechanics are fine in my opinion. I do it all the time--Save vs spells for half damage or whatever. It's more like a reminder but it's also clear. It's different than the pit example--you don't go into an explanation about the fire and how they have to roll around or find water in Room #4 to put out the flames. You insert the quick reminder and move on.

Chest with poison needle on lock.

Ok? well there are different types of poison...do I save vs poison or die? or take damage? or be paralyzed?
30 points of damage, save vs. poison for half damage. Oh ok--thanks!
 
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