Islandia Campaign (Companions inc)?

Blakely

A FreshHell to Contend With
I've been reading about this series. 5 modules. People reviewed (negatively) as having villains who were too sadistic for 1983 standards. Lifelike NPCs. Multiple story threads happening at the same time. Super detailed but formatted in a difficult-to-run style. It sounds very different what tsr was releasing. In fact, it was supposed to be released by tsr as (XB1?) in 1987 I think, but it wasn't. It's possible both authors, Wheeler and Rice, have passed away, but maybe Peter Rice is alive and well. It seems like possibly a hidden treasure that would need serious prep but might be worth the work.

Have you guys read these adventures? Original copies of the modules are like $250 each on ebay. Has anyone seen pdfs for sale?
 
Eg the kind of murder mystery that tickles your fancy when you read a module will be too hard for your players to crack , and the kind they will solve will read as being trite.
Id like to be wrong.
 
Personally I think the likes of Assassin's Knot and Veiled Society did us all a bit of a disservice by turning our fantasy dungeon explorations into social whodunnits, like we're playing Dungeons: The Masquerade or something. I get that some people enjoyed those adventures, but I just find it funny insofar as much as grogs love to say "you can't shoehorn a new-school system into old school play!", they seemingly have an ironic love for injecting murder mystery into fantasy survival games for whatever reason, as if that's a far more sane misappropriation than having DC target rolls instead of percentile ones.

I've run murder mysteries in D&D, though in hindsight, it was always more headache than it paid off. In terms of non-standard adventure, heists go down far better, I find.
 
Im pondering if the OS “heres all the info, heres a timeline, enjoy” kind of approach is flawed.

That's about the best you can hope for to direct any kind of open-ended sandbox play, provided any expected Developments are covered. It's not ideal, but it's really the only option for including any kind of pre-determined events.

Like if you say "the Duke is going to sacrifice his wife to the demon lord in six days", then you have a ticking clock element (which is good), but if no provisions are made for if the Duke is ever stopped (i.e. killed, probably), then you have a big problem, especially if anything after the expected sacrifice is dependent on things going to plan. If half the adventure is contingent on something happening which is in the player's power to stop/delay/alter, then it's just as big as flaw as gating a critical path behind a secret door in a dungeon. The thing NEEDS to happen. It is no longer a sandbox; it's a railroad.

Which is why I dislike mysteries in D&D, and why the Three-Clue-Rule even needs to exist in the first place. The less you can hinge on anything else, the better. Nothing in D&D is a given; even just succeeding at your declared actions is usually a dice-based gamble.

Unfortunately, there's no real great alternatives. Nobody wants to buy an adventure that just says "subject to change, adjust accordingly", nor do they want a hundred pages of contingencies and likely-unused material.
 
Which is why I dislike mysteries in D&D, and why the Three-Clue-Rule even needs to exist in the first place. The less you can hinge on anything else, the better. Nothing in D&D is a given; even just succeeding at your declared actions is usually a dice-based gamble.
I guess this depends on how comfortable you are with the players failing to solve the mystery, or at least failing to solve it in time.
 
I wonder if there is no magic formula for presenting an adventure’s complicated plots and deep details and actually “investigative d&d” just doesn’t work.
Is it an investigation adventure? I've never really seen a complex adventure that doesn't force the PCs along the path. That's why I'm curious about the style of this series.
 
I guess this depends on how comfortable you are with the players failing to solve the mystery, or at least failing to solve it in time.
It's more that if I wanted to play through a mystery, I'd crack open one of those Escape-Room-in-a-box games. D&D is too luck based for that stuff, both dice-wise and player-choice-wise. Sessions take hours - that's an arduous amount of time to be stuck on the first clue. It's why multi-part puzzles are so rare, and why it's a bad call to lock all your content behind one.
 
Is it an investigation adventure? I've never really seen a complex adventure that doesn't force the PCs along the path. That's why I'm curious about the style of this series.
L2 (The Assassin's Knot) doesn't. It's an open question regarding how effective it is at doing mystery, although AFAIK it was the first published D&D mystery module, which (a) means you should cut it some slack, and (b), means you should cut no slack to newer modules that don't do it as well, particularly given new tools like the Three Clue Rule. (Now that I think of it, L2 started by handing the players three clues to get the ball rolling.)

I note that L2 tells you exactly what happens if the players fail to solve the mystery in time.

I think that a lot of the early games assume PCs are just going to wander around figuring things out. Like, in 1e the domain game supports clearing out the monsters and building your stronghold, but not a lot else. But we know people played in those games, so they must have just done a lot of interaction with NPCs and made domain-level decisions, which was all adjudicated by DM fiat because there were no mechanics. Other than the "Assassin Spying Table", the existence of which which probably says something about how players and NPCs often approached these situations.

I do think the DM needs to be generous in handing out clues, or letting the players know the significance of what they do find, particularly if the significance is setting-dependent. For example, if you and your players are living in a landlocked jurisdiction like Alberta, and you are running a find-the-kidnappers mystery in a port city, you may need to point out that the wharf is where the kidnappers are likely to go if they want to smuggle a captive out of the city..

And the players just don't know the setting as well as you do, or as well as their characters do, and are going to need a little (a lot of) help. If I say that the kidnappers have Karrnathi accents, I'm probably also going to have to hand out the fact that Karrnath is a nation on the northern part of the continent, tell them a few things about why Karrnathis might be interested in kidnapping the person, and advise them that the only realistic way to get to Karrnath from here is by ship. Preferably indirectly, but it has to be communicated in a way that they recognize it's significance. Hopefully that is enough to get them poking around the docks, but players seem to have a very hard time with analysis paralysis if clues are not super easy to identify, and also very easy to draw a conclusion from.

I'm thinking about it now, and realistically, the only way is to give them some contacts who can help them interpret the evidence and give them suggestions about where to go next. Prefereably three of them.

[Also, what is up with the spellcheck in this forum? "NPCs" is a problem but "suggestiongs" is just fine?]
 
I ran L2 once, back in high school. It only 'succeeded' because my best friend was immediately suspicious of the baroness (was it a baroness? I can't remember) because she employed orcs. That meant she must be evil. Lol. The funny thing is my best friend said "I like that, you should do more adventures like that." And yet, none of the murder/mystery elements came into play because of his assumptions about people who employ orcs.

Come to think of it, his experiences with D&D more closely aligned with Gary's initial intentions (I forget what we called that, not tradgame but maybe something else?). More like the OSR ideal. The fact that he enjoyed an adventure that was outside of the dungeoncrawling framework perhaps shows how even the exploration-minded players were starting to show interested in tradgames and it's broader use of plots.

The Heretic
 
I ran L2 once, back in high school. It only 'succeeded' because my best friend was immediately suspicious of the baroness (was it a baroness? I can't remember) because she employed orcs. That meant she must be evil. Lol. The funny thing is my best friend said "I like that, you should do more adventures like that." And yet, none of the murder/mystery elements came into play because of his assumptions about people who employ orcs.

I'm replacing the orcs with brigands so we will see how that works out. Assuming the players take the hook, of course.

Come to think of it, his experiences with D&D more closely aligned with Gary's initial intentions (I forget what we called that, not tradgame but maybe something else?). More like the OSR ideal. The fact that he enjoyed an adventure that was outside of the dungeoncrawling framework perhaps shows how even the exploration-minded players were starting to show interested in tradgames and it's broader use of plots.
I believe that is the "Classic" style. I don't think it morphs into "Trad" just by being outside the dungeon. For starters, a lot of the domain game was clearly supposed to be mass combat, which is just getting back to its Chainmail roots. But I also think the social game can be defined by player choices rather than a DM-driven plotline.
 
I'm replacing the orcs with brigands so we will see how that works out. Assuming the players take the hook, of course.

That would be a good idea. If I ever ran it again I'd probably change that too, though my campaigns tend to include heresies like Reformed orcs of LN/LG alignment, so it might fit in as is.

I've wanted to run it again, as an event-based 'sandbox' adventure in a Kingmaker style campaign, but it never works out. It seems like it would be more organic if the PCs are already familiar with the towns and their rulers. The campaign has always ended up going in different directions and it would be too much of a hassle to rewrite it as a sandbox location that the PCs might ignore.

I did have reasonable success with a murder/mystery type of adventure built off of "Huddle Farm" from Dungeon #12. The premise is probably too silly and stupid for most people, and the adventure itself was written in exactly the wrong format (location based vs npc list/event based), but it cleaned up nicely. The PCs are hired by a halfling farmer to get to the bottom of some vandalism that is happening at his farm. He blames his neighbor but surprise! It was a leprechaun all along.

(One of my players is of Irish descent, has visited Ireland numerous times, and even took a course on Gaeilge, so it was very appropriate for my campaign).

I believe that is the "Classic" style. I don't think it morphs into "Trad" just by being outside the dungeon. For starters, a lot of the domain game was clearly supposed to be mass combat, which is just getting back to its Chainmail roots. But I also think the social game can be defined by player choices rather than a DM-driven plotline.

Yeah, that's it, Classic. You are correct, that doesn't mean it has to be Trad, but I think the emerging existence of Trad at the time made it seem like the logical next step. I had never heard of hexcrawling, and at that time I wasn't going to spend any of money on third party adventures from the likes Role Aids or Judges Guild. Trad was a temptation that was impossible to avoid, at least at that time.


The Heretic
 
Yeah, that's it, Classic. You are correct, that doesn't mean it has to be Trad, but I think the emerging existence of Trad at the time made it seem like the logical next step. I had never heard of hexcrawling, and at that time I wasn't going to spend any of money on third party adventures from the likes Role Aids or Judges Guild. Trad was a temptation that was impossible to avoid, at least at that time.
My first exposure to Trad was, I think, Dragons of Despair (DL1), which I loathed. At the time, I was not aware that there was a name for that style of play.

I had a hiatus from D&D while my kids were young, and came back during 4e. I loved the system, but couldn't figure out why the modules (which were Trad or neo-Trad) were so unsatisfying. Like, when you grow up playing old TSR modules, you don't really analyze what makes them tick. I didn't figure it out until I stumbled on the OSR, specifically the people who were deconstructing the Classic game elements.

But I think early exposure to DL1 definitely made me less interested in Trad, and was why I had such a hard time with the 4e modules. The premises were often pretty decent, but the execution... "Wait, why are the PCs going to this location now?" "Why would the players do that?" "Yeah, my players are def telling that quest-giver to F off." "Why, exactly, are these magma elementals teaming up with these low level bandits?"

That last one, the bizarre team-ups just so you could have certain combat roles filled, was particularly aggravating. Making new monsters or modifying old ones in 4e is so easy, there is no excuse for using incongruous allies when you can just tweak existing monsters to fill the missing role. So, sure, there may be no MM orcs capable of doing AOE attacks. I could have them work with a demon who spits balls of fire, OR I could give an orc some spells. Or grenades, or flasks of oil. Like, if they can't cast spells, how did they summon the demon? Or the Lovecraftian monstrosity in the next encounter? Or the water elemental in the one after? Can you at least stick to a theme with the bizarro allies?
 
My first exposure to Trad was, I think, Dragons of Despair (DL1), which I loathed. At the time, I was not aware that there was a name for that style of play.

Funny story. I was indirectly introduced to D&D through Dragonlance. I started buying all the modules but skipped DL1. Why? One of my friends already had it and they might've wanted to DM it. One of my sister's gave it to me as a gift when I had my tonsils out, and I returned it to the Game Castle for the Temple of Elemental Evil.

I had a hiatus from D&D while my kids were young, and came back during 4e. I loved the system, but couldn't figure out why the modules (which were Trad or neo-Trad) were so unsatisfying. Like, when you grow up playing old TSR modules, you don't really analyze what makes them tick. I didn't figure it out until I stumbled on the OSR, specifically the people who were deconstructing the Classic game elements.

That tracks with my experiences. I never left the hobby completely, but I did notice during the 3.x era that even though all the modules had the trappings of the originals, none of them reached the heights of those earlier modules. It wasn't until I started reading Ten Foot Pole that I realized why.

But I think early exposure to DL1 definitely made me less interested in Trad, and was why I had such a hard time with the 4e modules. The premises were often pretty decent, but the execution... "Wait, why are the PCs going to this location now?" "Why would the players do that?" "Yeah, my players are def telling that quest-giver to F off." "Why, exactly, are these magma elementals teaming up with these low level bandits?"

I observed that problem from the beginning with trad modules. "There's no way in hell my PCs are going to do that. How am I going to get this to work?"

That last one, the bizarre team-ups just so you could have certain combat roles filled, was particularly aggravating. Making new monsters or modifying old ones in 4e is so easy, there is no excuse for using incongruous allies when you can just tweak existing monsters to fill the missing role. So, sure, there may be no MM orcs capable of doing AOE attacks. I could have them work with a demon who spits balls of fire, OR I could give an orc some spells. Or grenades, or flasks of oil. Like, if they can't cast spells, how did they summon the demon? Or the Lovecraftian monstrosity in the next encounter? Or the water elemental in the one after? Can you at least stick to a theme with the bizarro allies?

To be fair, Classic had something analagous to this. Monster zoos.

The Heretic
 
To be fair, Classic had something analagous to this. Monster zoos.

The Heretic
The monster zoos at least had them in different rooms most of the time. They didn't have hobgoblins teaming up with grells in one room, and goblins teaming up with aarakocras in another, and bugbears teaming up with berbalangs in a third. And then inexplicably never having hobgoblins team up with carnivorous apes, or goblins team up with wolves. And ToEE, for example, had a plausible reason for the harpy/ghoul teamup.
 
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