[moved] The Great Project: Adventure Designers ... Assemble

The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
I don't really think we are going to make the big money here ... yet if money is involved it can become ugly quite quickly ... better plan ahead on this one and have a plan ready.
It seems so unlikely that it feels like hubris to even discuss it. It has to be the objective though (after the prime directive: Have Fun). Given that we're doing this in such a public, inclusive way, even if someone does 90% of the work or has the big brainstorm that leads us all forward they're just not going to have a justified claim to the IP. If people are worried about it, maybe put a disclaimer to that effect right at the top of every thread. If we manage to nail down a product identity and successful project formula, we can move forward with working out a fair way to pay creators who wish to work under the imprint. That first project though, I strongly advocate pumping any profits back into this site and Bryce' crippling indy-module addiction. If he wants to kick us out of his basement or get involved at that (or any) point, we can work out something new...
 

DangerousPuhson

Should be playing D&D instead
I say we invest back into production to cover future art or print costs, and maybe pay for a website.

We need a kick-ass name, but I'm not in a creative headspace at the end of a long Friday workday, so here's a few suggestions from the Random Guild/Clan Name Generator:

- Immoral Punks
- Tranquility of Anger
- Mini Illusions
- Grouchy Veterans
- Poisonforce
- Chaosbrand
- Angry Thugs
- Society of the Lewd
- Dark Primeval
- Cosmic Fluke
- Unseen Council
- Doom Crew
- The Denim Disciples
- Fantasylife
- New Haven Cooperative
- Old Ruins League
- The Grand Rebellion
- New Start Coalition
- Optimistic Adventures
- Cosmic Circus
- The Freaks
- Operation Market Stall
- Order of the Moving Hand
 
Last edited:

The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Cosmic Fluke lol

I like something dry, almost clinical that resolves into three letters (TSR). How about Game Theory Collective or something similar that spells out our mission.
 

Commodore

*eyeroll*
I'd be interested in something like this. Resume...two of Bryce's "Bests"? I'm a native Pathfinder runner and can handle converting to that glorious crunch of a system. If it's released after early August, I guess that will probably be Old School, right?

GTC is nice. Game Theory Cooperative, maybe?
 

Slick

*eyeroll*
Okay, so I don't have much in the way of "finished pieces" in my apartment but uhh... I did scrounge together some doodles I made at my desk at work over the past couple months. I don't have a scanner so I had to just take a photo of a big collage of them. This should give you an okay idea of what my art generally looks like (and I guess also an indication of how poor my work ethic is when assigned to a job):
17
 

DangerousPuhson

Should be playing D&D instead
20

Logo, based off 1True and Commodore name suggestions. Spot the not-so-hidden initials :)
Nice doodles Slick - would be cool to have a bunch together for a cover, tear-out item cards, or maybe a gonzo gazette book.
 
Last edited:

Grützi

Should be playing D&D instead
@Ice:
Sure thing ;) You can swoop in at any time and go "Whoo Whoo Whoo" ... I want a neat little choreography from you :p
You're more than welcome to do more if you like though.

@Commodore:
Welcome aboard.

GTC sound nice. Game Theory Cooperative has a nice ring to it.

I think we're on the safe side of things in the art department.
 

The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
I had some solid brainstorms the other night. It'd be nice to have a dedicated thread to start throwing stuff against the wall...
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Okay, so I don't have much in the way of "finished pieces" in my apartment but uhh... I did scrounge together some doodles I made at my desk at work over the past couple months.
I like them a lot! They emote.
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
I would consider it a public service if you created a solid 5e teaching module that was designed to ease players who learned during the post 1e era into an old school style of play.

I don't have a ton of time to contribute, and what I have is not easy to predict, but would be happy to review/critique on a more-or-less random basis. Maybe contribute a room or an NPC or two. But I don’t know 5e hardly at all. I read the basic rules and portions of the PH and DMG once, although I have the core books, but I have neither run nor played it.

If you get around to building a village or other social environment, I have a spreadsheet that I built as a tool for creating social networks. I list every NPC of significance, and it randomly suggests an alignment, gender, basic personality, distinguishing characteristic and connections to three other NPCs on the roster. I then use that as inspiration to write one paragraph entries for each NPC. It’s kind of a kluge and its operation would probably would make no sense to anyone but me, but I would be happy to plug a list of NPCs into it and tell you what I come up with.
 

The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
I second the writing a 5e module introducing an old school play style! People more comfortable writing for older rule sets should continue to do so; I believe there are a couple of people here capable of making a serviceable conversion.

Good work finding our thread a shiny new home Grutzi!
 

The1True

My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Well, mainstream 5e modules seem to be being written to a play style that still focuses on linear storylines and strong tactical encounters, whereas we would be attempting to write something that utilizes that rule set to promote an older play style. Hopefully showing off it's lost potential to a fresh audience.
 

DangerousPuhson

Should be playing D&D instead
I understand what you're talking about, but I don't quite understand how that translates into a module that "teaches" the difference between the two, or how the preferred style of writing done specifically by WotC has somehow become the de facto blanket style that "defines" all modern modules.

I mean, linear storylines and many tactical encounters is just a module-specific thing, not the playstyle for the whole of 5e... It's not like the DMG says "by the way, all your adventures need to be linear, and must always include a boatload of combat". Just because Hoard of the Dragon Queen or whatever is a railroad slog doesn't mean that it is the only style of adventure in 5e, you know?

I just don't get what people could include that would make a module into something that "transitions" 5e players into an old-school style of play.
 

Slick

*eyeroll*
I just don't get what people could include that would make a module into something that "transitions" 5e players into an old-school style of play.
This is something that I was going to bring up in this thread, but there are some key differences in approach between what 5E suggests by its rules, and what old-school games do. Gold-for-XP and the lack of balanced encounters to name two. You can make a 5E game play like an old-school game, but you have to work against some base assumptions that most players* of that edition seem to have, which is why the others in this thread want to ween 5E players into it in a way that isn't too jarring. I can't explain it (or likely anything) better than Gus, so I'll let him explain it in these two blog posts.

* I say "most players" judging from the wealth of published material, the actual-play podcasts, and the majority of 5E discussions I see online.
 
Last edited:

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
I understand what you're talking about, but I don't quite understand how that translates into a module that "teaches" the difference between the two, or how the preferred style of writing done specifically by WotC has somehow become the de facto blanket style that "defines" all modern modules.

....

I just don't get what people could include that would make a module into something that "transitions" 5e players into an old-school style of play.
I'm glad you asked, I've been thinking about it for a while. We probably want to suck them in without knowing it is happening. Some elements we might want to use are:

  1. A really clear transition to the mythic underworld. The players need to know they aren't in Kansas anymore. They will be more open to the unfamiliar workings of a dungeon if they are expecting the environment to be different.
  2. Telegraph the hidden and dangerous things early. For example, traps that have already been triggered, or a secret door jammed open with a body.
  3. Give clues as to the nature of the dungeon. For example, a poem scrawled on the wall that hints that the more dangerous monsters and greater treasures lie on the lower levels. Rumor tables are also good to describe the tropes that you now but newer players might not.
  4. Make the interactive stuff obviously interactive.
  5. Don't expressly make GP=XP, People will rebel against the non-simulationist character of it ("Shouldn't you get better by doing things?"). But 5e players will probably understand quest and ad hoc XP awards, so camouflage them as that. Like a room with monsters and treasure gives you 1,000 XP, but you still get 850 XP if you manage to get the treasure without defeating the monster. And you can give XPs for treasure that is unguarded but is hidden or trapped.
  6. You can probably get away with awarding less XPs for wandering monsters because The Angry GM has talked about this and he has a significant following.
  7. Don't try to slow down movement enough that it will have any measurable impact on wandering monster checks. You will have a rebellion if you try to justify a 6 to12 foot per minute speed. Just have enough things to do that take time so that you don't miss this element.
  8. Explain the things that trigger wandering monster checks other than time. Also give times for certain tasks, like searching rooms and opening locks, with a reminder of how that plays into the wandering monster system.
  9. Include sidebars for DMs as to how to "improvise" rooms. Like expecting that throughout the module a "bedroom" will contain bedroom stuff, and a kitchen will include kitchen stuff. Also that the module assumes they know the system and can choose appropriate relevant skills and set DCs for anything not expressly set out.
  10. Expressly set out the actions that will automatically uncover hidden items. For instance, a pit trap has perception DC higher than anyone's passive perception is expected to be, but automatically gives off a hollow thump if tapped with a pole or other object.
  11. No traps are gotchas. All traps are puzzles.
  12. No save or die, the player's don't have the tools to deal with it. You can have save or suck, but explain to the DM how to properly telegraph it to preserve agency.
  13. Give every monster something interesting to do.
  14. Most sentient monsters will try to talk first. How can they be sure you don't work for the Evil Overlord?
  15. Have weird and interactive magic items.
  16. You need a source of NPCs to join the party who are very clear about their wish to do so, at least at first. The first batch of NPCs must not betray the party; most D&D players have been betrayed so many times it is going to be tough enough to get them to convince them to take on an NPC.
  17. NPCs that are intended to join the party must be the simplest builds to run that it is possible to make, so they don't bog down combat.
  18. Consideration needs to be given for how large parties function on a 5' grid system. I'm making assumptions from 4e, but it is possible that rooms may need to be be bigger, and some thought may need to be given as to how combat will function in a 10' corridor; your assumptions that 3 people can stand abreast (and swing axes without hitting each other) may no longer hold, and rules regarding missile fire into melee may be different. Weapons may need to be findable in the dungeon that the party didn't think of itself, like giving polearms to the second rank or making sure everyone has a ranged attack of some sort.
  19. Items that modern players might not think to bring themselves should be found in the dungeon (10' poles, spikes, hammers, etc.).
  20. Don't start with a hexcrawl, they need to walk before they can run, and those procedures will need to be explicitly described. Haven near a dungeon would be fine.

Basically, take everything you assume and spell it out, and use ur-examples of the genre.

I'm not sure how this works with the assumptions being discussed in this thread. I think you need to be a bit vanilla if you want to rope them in.
 

DangerousPuhson

Should be playing D&D instead
Thanks for taking the time to spell it out. I can see what you're saying now - We would be looking to emphasize characteristics common to the OSR adventure scene that are still too often uncommon in modern modules.

The way I was interpreting that, I thought we were doing a "hey guys, XP for killing monsters is bad, so here's how you do XP for gold" type teaching scenario and I was all like "why exactly?". Basically what you're saying is that we want a module that doesn't necessarily teach OSR gameplay, but rather good adventure design and game running principles in general. Makes more sense.

I'm not sure how this works with the assumptions being discussed in this thread. I think you need to be a bit vanilla if you want to rope them in.
I'm a bit worried about getting so much input into the project... could very end up like this:

26

Simpsons fans should know what I'm saying here. We must take precautions now, at the outset, before we "bankrupt Unkie Herb", so to speak.
 
Top