P O I S O N !

[squeen]

In a recent session, my players were skulking around in the storm-sewers beneath the Palace, looking for the missing equipment of one of our PCs. An NPC #@!!-->ranger<--!!@# (looking at you Malrex!) was tracking the dragged body's escape route. Recall from an earlier post of mine, he had consumed a poisoned drink and been kidnapped. Incidentally, he has since escaped and ridden back to the captial city on a stolen horse---briefly visiting EOTB's Town of Groat's End (thanks!) that I had renamed Bonhomme because the locals speak with a "ri-diculous [French] ac-cent".

While down in the storm-drains, they bumped into a pair of Vegepygme hunters whom had come up from the Deep Sewers, and the Veggies shot the 5th level fighter in the face with poisoned blow-darts after he stuck his head out of a (very noisily opened) secret door. It was a mild poison (paralysis for 1d4 rounds), and I did give him partial coverage AC benefits. His cohorts eventually dragged him back to safety by his ankles.

The player (who's thief had previously drank the poison drink) AND now took two darts in the face, went into a minor diatribe (half tongue-in-cheek) about how poison is absolute awful! He went on to cited some goblins---that may appear in my Earth Temple adventure submission for Dragonsfoot's---with a mildly hallucinogenic poison on their arrows.

Most of these rants are disguised meta-gaming to get the nasty-old-DM (me) to dial down the difficulty level (to -1 preferably). It's expected....but, it got me thinking:

1. Am I over using poison?
2. Is it the "Great Equalizer" for low-HD threats?
3. How many blow-darts should one be able to fire in one round---certainty not 3!?!
4. Am I asking you folks too many questions in 2020?

Your thoughts? How do y'all handle poison?
@DP: Feel free to hijack this thread and talk about something totally rando---figure I owe you that.

EDIT: Another question...would you give them XP for recovering some of their compatriot's valuables? Is there a By-The-Book ruling on recovered treasure?

 

[gandalf_scion]

1. Am I over using poison?
2. Is it the "Great Equalizer" for low-HD threats?
3. How many blow-darts should one be able to fire in one round---certainty not 3!?!
4. Am I asking you folks too many questions in 2020?

1) Save or die/sleep/suffer full damage is the best approach to poison. Weak poisons can afford targets bonuses to their save while strong poisons carry penalties. Poisons that do damage without outright auto death are best handled as regular damage dice with a save for half damage. For example "It bites for 2d6 damage precisely because that bite includes 'non-lethal' poison; save for half damage."

2) Not an equalizer, but another asset. Some low-level characters (dwarves) have great saves and can face poison with confidence. Also, good use of poison gives meaning to spells and potions that slow or neutralize the stuff.

3) Blow darts might be one-per-round. They are actually quite clumsy requiring one to stuff a feather in a tube (without sticking yourself) and then prop it up for aiming before inhaling and blowing - not an efficient weapon. In fact, if used in combat without surprise a DM might require the user to pass a save versus petrify (the 1e default for reflexes) to avoid dropping the dart or sticking oneself. In 1e, thrown darts are three per round.

4) One can never ask too many questions, great fodder for good conversation.

5) No XP for recovered treasure because they took it in with them. You get XP for the extra you bring out.

 

[Malrex]

I'm not sure how that ranger was moving as a pipe smoking stump.....

 

[Malrex]

1. Am I over using poison?
2. Is it the "Great Equalizer" for low-HD threats?
3. How many blow-darts should one be able to fire in one round---certainty not 3!?!
4. Am I asking you folks too many questions in 2020?

1. Poison can have its uses. A paralytic poison for 1d4 rounds sounds like something up my alley in which I would employ. It also makes sense to me that vegepygmies would have poison as they are 'planty' (just made up a word!). Goblins too as they are just filthy...A minotaur using poison?...hmm..that might be over-using poison. It doesn't make as much sense to me so I would argue that one a little bit. I agree with gandalf_scion's assessment for the most part. I've never been a fan of Save or Die with poison though (probably because I enjoy playing thieves). Yes...sometimes it makes sense to use it and it definitely has its place, but I prefer poisons that cause damage or paralysis.

2. agree with gandalf_scion

3. The very first round, a blow dart might get 2 darts off in the round, then 1 dart per round after. They could have a dart primed and ready to go.

4. Questions can lead to great discussions.

5. Not sure if there is a btb ruling on recovering equipment. It hasn't happened often enough in my group to think about. If the equipment was stashed and guarded with incredible odds and the party does something clever to recover it, I might give a little bonus XP or something. Could lead to a cool adventure hook...

 

[Two orcs]

1. You're not, though make sure poison is part of the treasure of tribes who employ it.

2. It's something to make giant spiders, snakes etc. scary despite the meager HD. A confident fighter takes on any goblin but shies away from sticking his hand in a literal nest of vipers. Versimilitude!

3. 1 per round, why would they be faster than bows?

4. Not yet!

 

[squeen]

3. 1 per round, why would they be faster than bows?

Bow are 2/round
Thrown darts are 3/round.
...unless something has changed post 1e after which my knowledge fails.

I agree with Malrex (and you), 1/round for blow-darts, slower than bows but improved range over hand-thrown darts---also like the 1e save required for non-proficient poison users (i.e. PCs, non-assassins?) of pricking themselves. That's what I did during the game.

Malrex and I are also in sync with "planty"---even though there's no mention of poison darts in the Vegepygmies MMII entry. Also, I'm unsure at what later edition the russet mold reproduction connection appeared, but I don't mind it.

An aside, I was inspired by the Vegepygmy treatment as inept minions for the Shrooms in Matt Finch's Demonspore. It just fit perfectly with the no-talking, plant-intelligence thing. They seem ripe for hi-jinx.

 

[EOTB]

Blowguns are introduced in Unearthed Arcana as their own thing, with a ROF of 2/rd. So same as bows. But I think ammo is limited - I'd give someone with a blowgun a handful of darts and not a quiver's worth. It's mainly a hunting weapon instead of a battle-weapon.

I think poison is a common hazard. But I agree that PCs should expect the opportunity to use it themselves from looted foes if it's often used against them, provided the class allows poison use (no paladins, etc.) So if a DM doesn't want PCs doing it then limit it. One of the big benefits of a fighter is the ability to coat their weapons with poison. And if they can't find applicable poison, another benefit to having lots of weapon proficiences is a better chance of using looted already-poisoned weapons. See if their frustration goes away when they get to short-circuit the game just like the game sometimes short-circuits their plans.

I don't give XP for loot taken off a body. This scenario is indirectly covered in the DMG discussing reducing loot XP for the threat level of what's guarding it. Your own buddy's body = zero threat, so zero XP.

 

[Reason]

1. Am I over using poison?
2. Is it the "Great Equalizer" for low-HD threats?
3. How many blow-darts should one be able to fire in one round---certainty not 3!?!

1. Separate into intelligent foes using poison & poisonous monsters.
poisonous monsters are there own thing & "don't count". As long as there is some suspicion or way to find out in game that Wyverns are poisonous or you expect the snakes to be poisonous of course then it's a manageable risk like a trap with a warning clue. All fair.

Intelligent foes... who knows. I'd expect it to show up every few adventures... maybe 1 in 6 foe types. More than that & like traps, it may get tedious.

3. I just do everything fires 1 per round. My life is a lot easier that way. Weapons have other in game pros/cons.