The state of Post-OSR content

[The1True]

See, if I was in your game I would hire someone to do the mining for me, and hire someone to supervise them.

They were actually talking about this after they acquired the claim to the mithril vain and repaired the prospecting endjinn. Then they drove the endjinn into the lake trying to get back into the Tesseract and ran out of fuel, and that was that. They're presently motivated to look for a new fuel supply which is cool. The claim jumpers and political factions were indeed gathering, but the party made good their escape by accident or on purpose (it's unclear) when they ditched that thing at the bottom of the 500' deep lake and hopped in an escape pod. Dudes, I wrote up mining rules (cribbed from "On Downtime and Demesnes", buy it now!), investing rules, outlines for the actions of the various factions if they went into partnership with one or the other of them. Pages of manic note taking...As @squeen mentioned, it'll all be there if they maybe come back to it someday

We hated henchmen all the way back in 2e. Pure greed. Common practice was to divide XP evenly, and no one liked sharing with the NPC's.

You might try stocking the random encounter tables with creatures that are simple to run and/or relatively easy to defeat

Okay, so I did this with those simplified stat blocks in Irradiated Paradox, but I got more fastedious with Spot Distances. Now a cautiously traveling/exploring party can avoid attrition, but as a result, they end up moving on a lot of the time before fully investigating an area. Also, they ended up avoiding a number of easter egg Encounters. Bearbear has ties to the Cult of Phaestus. It's not critical to the adventure, but if you chance upon him, it's some good luck. These guys randomly ran into that bear Four Times. He's a mean, grumpy bear, but each time, they got the drop on him from a distance and walked away, choosing to leave the wildlife alone. I did not see the modern conservationist mentality coming on that one, gotta say. I was expecting either "It's a massive dire beast! Kill it with Fire!" or "It's a fuzzy meatshield. I Charm it!"

 

[squeen]

Bluesky was a very pleasant haven for a while, hopefully it won't change too much now that it is open to all comers.

Why did you like it? Was it just because it was better aligned with you political/social values, or something else?

@The1True It sounds like everything is working to me. What's your concern?

 

[The1True]

@The1True It sounds like everything is working to me. What's your concern?

I want greedy looting to be the primary motivation for exploration of the ruined city in my fantasy heartbreaker campaign. I've been testing out the mechanics in this Tomb City, and the response has been underwhelming. I had to give them a bead on some big scores, which is fine, I'm sure I can rework that conceit, but I was hoping they would industrialize their greed a bit.

Reflecting on it. The grinding is fine in a CRPG, but sucks when you're enjoying time with your group. I want to keep it as a central motivation (like all the rival NPC's are doing it so, of the many things they might choose to do, this is always there as option 1 for things we can do today), but greatly simplify the mechanics and push it to the background like sleeping, eating and finding shelter. Like, you set out to rummage through this neighbourhood today, and here are some meaningful things that you see and that happen while you do that or instead of you doing that.

 

[Malrex]

Which has me leaning more and more towards Sandboxes. But it can be a lot of content to create if you want it to be meaningful. (And is also extremely dissatisfying to consumers unless you're prepared to detail every feature on your map). I'm working off of short notes on what's in each Hex and I can often wing it til the end of session and then polish something up for the next, but a week isn't much time for a working person, and more often than not you end up dropping in a Dyson map with maybe some well thought out encounters, but it's unlikely that you'll come up with any truly meaningful interactive traps or tricks or items. The players end up feeling empty when they come away from these experiences. It's the TTRPG equivalent of CRPG grinding.

Also, these sandboxes are a BITCH for playtesting, lol. My guys veared off the Irradiated Paradox test to investigate the Tomb City of the Reptile Kings (due to a throwaway reference I added for flavour while the bard was doing research at the Pantheon Library) which has turned into a gloriously fun, year-long mess of totally unpublishable material.

Yeah.....heh...that's why it's taking forever to wrap up Vermilion and Coppercore. Playtesting....it's amazing how one little word or phrase or title and suddenly the PCs want to go check it out, which then expands the sandbox--but I kind of liked that because it helped me tie in these new areas with the old and solidify some things.

I want greedy looting to be the primary motivation for exploration of the ruined city in my fantasy heartbreaker campaign. I've been testing out the mechanics in this Tomb City, and the response has been underwhelming. I had to give them a bead on some big scores, which is fine, I'm sure I can rework that conceit, but I was hoping they would industrialize their greed a bit.

Reflecting on it. The grinding is fine in a CRPG, but sucks when you're enjoying time with your group. I want to keep it as a central motivation (like all the rival NPC's are doing it so, of the many things they might choose to do, this is always there as option 1 for things we can do today), but greatly simplify the mechanics and push it to the background like sleeping, eating and finding shelter. Like, you set out to rummage through this neighbourhood today, and here are some meaningful things that you see and that happen while you do that or instead of you doing that.

Treasure for XP is usually a easy motivation. But at my table, my players or when Im a player, we all have our own motivations that we find a lot cooler or fun than just treasure. So in order to tweak it...you need to change the motivation for treasure. If they don't care about XP gain...then make it a in-game motivation. Like 3 factions are trying to get enough loot to help build their rocketship to get off the planet first...one of the factions hires the PCs...or encourage a cleric to build a temple...the focus will be on a goal, rather than just loot.

 

[The1True]

Malrex! How's your latest irl hex crawl going? (Or has that yet to begin?)

Like 3 factions are trying to get enough loot to help build their rocketship to get off the planet first...one of the factions hires the PCs...or encourage a cleric to build a temple...the focus will be on a goal, rather than just loot.

NICE! A couple of BIG TICKET items to aim for (or to inspire the creation of their own Big Ticket targets). Things with obvious endgame benefits. Like, if only we could get this temple built we could attract that miracle worker who can cast True Resurrection; or if only we had an industrial hammer powered by a watermill, I could pound this rare metal into fabulous magical weapons and armour. Lay it out early so people can get their eyes on the prize. Elegant.

Yeah.....heh...that's why it's taking forever to wrap up Vermilion and Coppercore. Playtesting....it's amazing how one little word or phrase or title and suddenly the PCs want to go check it out, which then expands the sandbox

It'll be worth the wait! I hear what you're saying though. I ended up fleshing out a bunch of things which has ballooned the page count right out. I'm just wrapping up the last section and the appendices and then I'm afraid it will be a matter of massacring my darlings It doesn't help that their seems to be some wobble in the court of public opinion as to what's the appropriate amount of Ready to Play vs DIY in a finished product. (I'm afraid the answer is: People just know when something is awesome and when it's not; making a surprising amount of writing sins acceptable.)

 

[Malrex]

Malrex! How's your latest irl hex crawl going? (Or has that yet to begin?)

I have conquered Patagonia...about 70 miles hiked. The videos are in production (my friend adds music, etc.). I don't talk about D&D much in Season 2 though, and I think it may be a little more boring than the PCT, but it is absolutely gorgeous in Patagonia. Should be coming out in the next few weeks.

 

[squeen]

Patagonia --- as in South America?!? Amazing.

 

[Malrex]

Patagonia --- as in South America?!? Amazing.

yes sir. It was an amazing trip. I feel pretty blessed to be able to go.

 

[Beoric]

Why did you like it? Was it just because it was better aligned with you political/social values, or something else?

Fewer assholes, more control over your feed. I'm all for the marketplace of ideas, but a marketplace lets you avoid stores you aren't interested in, and kicks out merchants who are abusive or bad for business. Like, it isn't a breach of free speech for a shopping mall to refuse to rent space for a NAMBLA kink outlet. Whereas Twitter lets the merchants set up a booth in your kitchen and yell at you.

EDIT: Twitter is like a shopping mall where NAMBLA isn't just given a storefront, but its sales clerks harass and insult and throw creepy pamphlets at you in the food court while you are talking to your friends, and security has been instructed by the mall to let them do it. Guess what mall I'm not going to attend anymore?

 

[Beoric]

Now a cautiously traveling/exploring party can avoid attrition, but as a result, they end up moving on a lot of the time before fully investigating an area. Also, they ended up avoiding a number of easter egg Encounters.

Yeah, its always a balancing act. Maybe your hidden stuff needs to be more lucrative? I dunno, I can never get the balance right either.

Treasure for XP is usually a easy motivation. But at my table, my players or when Im a player, we all have our own motivations that we find a lot cooler or fun than just treasure. So in order to tweak it...you need to change the motivation for treasure. If they don't care about XP gain...then make it a in-game motivation. Like 3 factions are trying to get enough loot to help build their rocketship to get off the planet first...one of the factions hires the PCs...or encourage a cleric to build a temple...the focus will be on a goal, rather than just loot.

That works too.

 

[Hemlock]

I can see why random encounters would be a slog in 3.PF. I know in my 4e game I greatly simplify them in comparison to set pieces, so they run pretty quickly. You might try stocking the random encounter tables with creatures that are simple to run and/or relatively easy to defeat - even if they only get a couple of hits in, they are still attritting HP. Or make the odd one really interesting, so they don't feel like a random encounter.

I'm a fan of two different kinds of random encounters: intricate, open-ended ones to add complexity, and wandering deadly monsters to add time pressure.

As an example of the latter, let's say you're on the first level of a dungeon where a typical "fixed" encounter might be 2-4 skeletons rattling their chains in a locked cell somewhere, but then there's a 1 chance in 6 every half hour to roll on the wandering monster table for things coming from the deeper dungeon levels, e.g. 1-2 trolls or 2-5 wraiths. The metapurpose of these wandering monsters is to instill FEAR and therefore time pressure/suspense. (Make sure you roll the wandering monster checks even if players are safely forted up in a hidden location, just so you can say "you see 5 wraiths drifting by from the lower dungeon, but they don't notice you in your little barricaded nook".)

As an example of the former, think of all of those AD&D monster entries that have "number appearing: 30-300." If 286 orcs show up, that's not supposed to be a mere "combat encounter" that's over in a few moments one way or the other. That's practically an invading army, and you might begin interacting with them long before you meet them, by seeing empty fields, burning villages, or refugees trudging hopelessly along the road. The metapurpose of these kinds of random encounters is to add INTEREST and DYNAMISM to the world, to give players things to react to and play off of. It could be 30-300 orcs; it could be a traveling circus run by P.J. Barman with strongmen and acrobats for hire; it could be a sphinx occupying a key trade route and demanding riddling opponents or tribute; it could be an ancient battlefield generating spontaneous undead war parties. At any rate, it's not something I necessarily need the players to resolve right now so much as I need them to know that it's there, now, as part of the context of whatever else they're doing during this adventure. And of course if they do start digging up the battlefield looking for the source of the unrest, they'll find something worth their time.

 

[squeen]

Brilliantly stated @Hemlock.

 

[Beoric]

As an example of the former, think of all of those AD&D monster entries that have "number appearing: 30-300." If 286 orcs show up, that's not supposed to be a mere "combat encounter" that's over in a few moments one way or the other. That's practically an invading army, and you might begin interacting with them long before you meet them, by seeing empty fields, burning villages, or refugees trudging hopelessly along the road. The metapurpose of these kinds of random encounters is to add INTEREST and DYNAMISM to the world, to give players things to react to and play off of. It could be 30-300 orcs; it could be a traveling circus run by P.J. Barman with strongmen and acrobats for hire; it could be a sphinx occupying a key trade route and demanding riddling opponents or tribute; it could be an ancient battlefield generating spontaneous undead war parties. At any rate, it's not something I necessarily need the players to resolve right now so much as I need them to know that it's there, now, as part of the context of whatever else they're doing during this adventure. And of course if they do start digging up the battlefield looking for the source of the unrest, they'll find something worth their time.

I see this, not so much as a random encounter, as procedurally generated content generation (which I think is how it was originally meant to be used, when exploring wilderness that the DM had not keyed).

BTW, the Fiend Folio borks this, by nearly always giving dungeon encounter numbers, instead of wilderness encounter numbers; whereas the Monster Manual gives wilderness encounter numbers for anything that can be encountered in the wilderness. This is why the MM usually discusses the community structure associated with a set of numbers (like the number of leaders, or the fact that if more than two dragons are encountered, the third and fourth will be younger offspring).

 

[grodog]

Agreed, and this is why AD&D (and by extension, OSRIC) needs a book of maps for in-lair encounters that combines the community-based settlements of the MM with the complex-monster examples from Rogues Gallery (for creatures like liches, titans, dragons, etc.) as ready-made encounters that don’t SUCK like most of the Book of Lairs 1 and 2 and related products did (OP1 Tales of the Outer Planes, and setting-specific books for DL, FR, and SJ; REF5 Lords of Darkness being an exception, somewhat).

This is something I’ve been working on on-and-off for several years (not as long as my mega-dungeon designing essays anthology, though), and it will really help shine a light on the type of encounters that exemplify AD&D play at its best.

If I ever finish it

Allan.

 

[squeen]

That's a really great idea Allan. The Frogs Monster Manuals tried to do that to some extent, giving you a text-only example encounter with each monster.

In many ways, that's also what the wildness portion of my campaign book has slowly evolved into---a network of spatially scattered lairs around a few tent-pole installations.

 

[Beoric]

Agreed, and this is why AD&D (and by extension, OSRIC) needs a book of maps for in-lair encounters that combines the community-based settlements of the MM with the complex-monster examples from Rogues Gallery (for creatures like liches, titans, dragons, etc.) as ready-made encounters that don’t SUCK like most of the Book of Lairs 1 and 2 and related products did (OP1 Tales of the Outer Planes, and setting-specific books for DL, FR, and SJ; REF5 Lords of Darkness being an exception, somewhat).

This is something I’ve been working on on-and-off for several years (not as long as my mega-dungeon designing essays anthology, though), and it will really help shine a light on the type of encounters that exemplify AD&D play at its best.

If I ever finish it

Allan.

I've been thinking for a while that a book of bandit camps, one for each terrain type, would be good. But you could do the same thing for demihuman villages, dragon lairs, etc.

 

[Howard Andrew Jones]

I was thinking of picking up Raging Swans' Laironomicon, which just got released today. I dig the Thingonomicon from the same publisher, which is full of cool little tables like what that sword looks like or what that ring looks like or what you find on the dead cleric, etc. I may wait to see a few sample pages before I spring to find out how cool the lairs actually are.

 

[Osrnoob]

Dolmenwood is coming.

Monocle awaits.