DangerousPuhson
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
See, that sounds like a good system to me. We should get us some of that.
The state of Post-OSR content
- Thread starter Yora
- Start date
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
4e is pretty predictable. Basic +1 items with no bells and whistles are level 1, 360 gp (and won't even drop as treasure, the lowest you can get is level 2). All the other +X items follow a predictable scale, being five levels higher and 5x the price, so a basic +2 sword is 1,800 gp.
A +1 item with just a little bit more is level 2 and 520 gp, whereas a +1 item with a daily power is minimum level 3 and 680 gp. In each case, it follows the same progress: 5 levels higher and 5x the price. So a +2 item with a bit more is level 7 and 2,600 gp, and a +2 level 3 item with a daily power is starts at level 8 and 3,400 gp.
That's the bit everybody knows. What I eventually figured out is there is also a pattern for daily powers. A daily item on any magic item is equivalent to an encounter power of a particular level. So I could take a level 1 encounter attack power from any class, reflavour it (or not), and make it a daily attack power on a third level item. The pattern here is that at each stage where you get an encounter attack power, the item equivalent will be a half-tier higher. I expect that makes little sense, so here is an example. The next level where you get an encounter attack power is level 3, and the next half-tier of magic item would be level 8, so a level 8 item's daily power is equivalent to a level 3 encounter attack power. So items at levels 13, 18, 23 & 28 would have daily powers equivalent in power to class encounter attack powers of levels 7, 13, 17 & 23. Utility powers follow a similar pattern. There are some quirks, but that is the general pattern. Basically you get a daily use of an encounter power that is decent enough to see play.
Consumables are universally overpriced for what you get, ensuring they rarely see play even if they are a found item. A consumable of a certain level is priced at (I wouldn't say "worth") 1/25 the price of a permanent magic item of the same level (a bit more for the first couple of levels, which compounds the problem). Consumables generally have a power level a bit (or more than a bit) less than an at-will class power used by a character of the same level. That usually makes them worse than every other choice available to a player.
Which is a good example of how supply and demand works in the metagame economy. You can charge more for an item, or an entire category of items, than players are willing to spend.
A +1 item with just a little bit more is level 2 and 520 gp, whereas a +1 item with a daily power is minimum level 3 and 680 gp. In each case, it follows the same progress: 5 levels higher and 5x the price. So a +2 item with a bit more is level 7 and 2,600 gp, and a +2 level 3 item with a daily power is starts at level 8 and 3,400 gp.
That's the bit everybody knows. What I eventually figured out is there is also a pattern for daily powers. A daily item on any magic item is equivalent to an encounter power of a particular level. So I could take a level 1 encounter attack power from any class, reflavour it (or not), and make it a daily attack power on a third level item. The pattern here is that at each stage where you get an encounter attack power, the item equivalent will be a half-tier higher. I expect that makes little sense, so here is an example. The next level where you get an encounter attack power is level 3, and the next half-tier of magic item would be level 8, so a level 8 item's daily power is equivalent to a level 3 encounter attack power. So items at levels 13, 18, 23 & 28 would have daily powers equivalent in power to class encounter attack powers of levels 7, 13, 17 & 23. Utility powers follow a similar pattern. There are some quirks, but that is the general pattern. Basically you get a daily use of an encounter power that is decent enough to see play.
Consumables are universally overpriced for what you get, ensuring they rarely see play even if they are a found item. A consumable of a certain level is priced at (I wouldn't say "worth") 1/25 the price of a permanent magic item of the same level (a bit more for the first couple of levels, which compounds the problem). Consumables generally have a power level a bit (or more than a bit) less than an at-will class power used by a character of the same level. That usually makes them worse than every other choice available to a player.
Which is a good example of how supply and demand works in the metagame economy. You can charge more for an item, or an entire category of items, than players are willing to spend.
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
@robertsconley absolutely nailed it with this blog post. The panel discussion is alright as well. Thinking of the OSR as a galaxy with a gravitational centre is elegant and inclusive. I think we can officially close this thread?
DangerousPuhson
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Wait, you mean you don't want to go on and on for another 80+ pages just to define a single nebulous term?
If the "OSR-sphere" has taught me anything, it's that "OSR" is an entirely worthless label - it means too many different things to too many different people, and yet somehow means nothing at the same time. The number of times Bryce has mentioned "this is 5e, not OSR as labelled" makes me think the label just causes more harm than benefit.
If the "OSR-sphere" has taught me anything, it's that "OSR" is an entirely worthless label - it means too many different things to too many different people, and yet somehow means nothing at the same time. The number of times Bryce has mentioned "this is 5e, not OSR as labelled" makes me think the label just causes more harm than benefit.
Ineffective Voulging
*eyeroll*
Well yeah a label that lies is a bad label
DangerousPuhson
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
It's not just a lie - it's the fact that the label is so broad that it means nothing.
It's like a can labelled "food" - is it human food? Dog food? Good food? Bad food? Presumably you can eat it.... who the fuck knows.
"OSR" is the same way. Might as well change the term to "D&D-adjacent TTRPG" for all the good it does.