A.I. Use, statements, opinions, transparency, a story?, ramblings....

[Malrex]

This is what it is at its best. I think we've pretty much talked out mechanics for the time being, but I, for one, wouldn't mine talking about supplement design more. I was going to say "module design", but I think there's also room to talk about setting design and other splatbooks.

Funny you should mention that. I keep referencing “stuff we’ve been working on since 2017,” and this is basically what I mean.

We’ve wrapped up a gods book for our setting (and yes—priests for each god, because it’s 2e!).

Writing is done and waiting on layout for a gnome kit book (surprisingly fun, even if it’s the least-played race), plus dwarf and human kit books. Elves are still in progress, and I also want to tackle a half-breed book (half-elves, half-orcs, halflings, and dwarmen) which I think will be doable with the way we are organizing our setting.

At the same time, we’re finishing a setting book and an optional ruleset built to sit alongside For Gold & Glory.

So yeah—supplement design, splatbooks, kits, gods, settings… that’s the stuff we’ve been living in for a long time.

One thing I’ve noticed is that developing a town/region first—say, a gnome town—and really working out its factions, trades, and internal tensions makes kit design almost effortless. Once the social dynamics are clear, the kits kind of write themselves.

Is all of this necessary? Probably not—and that’s the point. It’s optional. But it’s been genuinely fun to develop, and it’s made our gameplay at the table better as well as sparking ideas for new adventures.

 

[Beoric]

Hell, yeah, I'd like to talk about that stuff!

One thing I’ve noticed is that developing a town/region first—say, a gnome town—and really working out its factions, trades, and internal tensions makes kit design almost effortless. Once the social dynamics are clear, the kits kind of write themselves.

I imagine that's because you make that background stuff gameable. I think the most common mistake that people never realize they have made when designing setting material, is making things that are superficially interesting, but that do not interact with the setting in any meaningful way. If you have designed background material that has a real impact on the world, it suggests how character classes would adapt to the setting environment, which in turn suggests the flavour and mechanics associated with kits.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Hell, yeah, I'd like to talk about that stuff!


I imagine that's because you make that background stuff gameable. I think the most common mistake that people never realize they have made when designing setting material, is making things that are superficially interesting, but that do not interact with the setting in any meaningful way. If you have designed background material that has a real impact on the world, it suggests how character classes would adapt to the setting environment, which in turn suggests the flavour and mechanics associated with kits.

In creating the world, you create opportunities in the world. If you expand, so too do the opportunities. You and Malrex are both right about that, for sure.

And expanding is a matter of simply asking more questions. "What outside things threaten this community?" (Kit for Fighter), "How does this community pay reverence to the gods?" (Kit for Cleric/Paladin), "How does this community get food?" (Kit for Ranger), "What happens to the ones exiled from this community?" (Kit for Monk), "What makes magic different in this community?" (Kit for Wizard), etc.

 

[Malrex]

In creating the world, you create opportunities in the world. If you expand, so too do the opportunities. You and Malrex are both right about that, for sure.

And expanding is a matter of simply asking more questions. "What outside things threaten this community?" (Kit for Fighter), "How does this community pay reverence to the gods?" (Kit for Cleric/Paladin), "How does this community get food?" (Kit for Ranger), "What happens to the ones exiled from this community?" (Kit for Monk), "What makes magic different in this community?" (Kit for Wizard), etc.

Exactly right, DP. And the big question I always wrestle with is:
“What hasn’t been done before?”

Anyone can write “goblins in a hole.” Anyone can make a berserker.
So what makes ours different?

When we started building our setting, of course we wanted berserkers — but we didn’t want to just reskin the classic trope. We asked:

• What actually makes a berserker in THIS culture?
• Why does this tradition exist?
• How does it differ between peoples?

Playtesting forced us to go deeper. We realized not all “berserking” should look the same. A priest who worships a war-god shouldn’t rage the same way a clan warrior does. And if a priest can rage, turn undead, cast spells, and do everything else, doesn’t that steal the spotlight from the person who is supposed to embody pure fury?

So we broke it apart. We designed three distinct forms of berserking, each rooted in its culture — human, dwarf, and even gnome (the Gnasher!). They all share a theme, but each feels different in play because they belong to the people who practice them.

That’s the fun rabbit hole: letting the setting dictate the kit, not the other way around.

Now we’re working on the elf book, and I keep asking myself:
“Does an elf berserker even make sense?”
Part of me says no — culturally it’s a mismatch.
Another part says: “Well, I’ve never seen one before. Could that be something new?”

And that’s where the work happens, not just copying what’s been done, but interrogating why something exists and whether it truly fits this world.

Our berserkers are different because they grew out of the culture, not from a generic template. The bonuses might look familiar, but the reasoning behind them and the way they play reflects the setting. And through playtesting, we discovered things that looked great on paper but failed at the table. You have to be willing to throw stuff out and try again.

That’s where the freshness comes from.
Not from inventing something wild for its own sake but from making choices that are true to the world you built.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

“Does an elf berserker even make sense?”

This point sparked an idea: Elves are like Vulcans - measured, comported and repressed. But a Vulcan during Pon Farr can be a scary, unreasonable thing. Just as an elf entering a state of "Rham-Payj" (or whatever) can be a scary, unreasonable thing. When their masks are dropped, their true nature is shown to be a violent, deadly state. It's just not a well-known fact about elves, because few live to see them in such a state. Elf berserkers.

That being said, what we are discussing is basically "inside-out" worldbuilding. Small scale questions leading to big scale answers. It has been done before.

 

[Beoric]

“Does an elf berserker even make sense?”

This point sparked an idea: Elves are like Vulcans - measured, comported and repressed. But a Vulcan during Pon Farr can be a scary, unreasonable thing. Just as an elf entering a state of "Rham-Payj" (or whatever) can be a scary, unreasonable thing. When their masks are dropped, their true nature is shown to be a violent, deadly state. It's just not a well-known fact about elves, because few live to see them in such a state. Elf berserkers.

That being said, what we are discussing is basically "inside-out" worldbuilding. Small scale questions leading to big scale answers. It has been done before.

It may not make sense for Tolkien elves and their derivatives. But Norse dark elfs, who lived underground, and may or may not have been dwarves? I don't see why not - or you could make drow berserkers instead. And I think berserkers are a really good fit for the Tuatha de Dannan, who are sometimes treated as gods and other times treated like elfs living under barrows.

Also, if you are dumping Tolkien, and the embarrassing spelling mistake he decided not to fix, your berserker elves should be elfs.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Unless you're playing in Middle Earth, you should always be dumping Tolkeinisms anyway. All of that stuff gets established at the campaign outset (my el*f*s are all French, for example, but they could equally be Norsemen or what have you). The only implicit inherencies that D&D worlds should be wrestling with are the ones listed in the D&D Monster Manuals that say things like "organized militant hobgoblins" and "Type IV Demon".

 

[Two orcs]

It may not make sense for Tolkien elves and their derivatives.

Tolkien provides many examples of elven in fighting fury, most notable Fingolfin's rage and duel against Morgoth.

 

[The1True]

Not gonna lie. I kinda hat elf berserkers. I mean unless you're going to build a whole tribe of savage, retrograde elves. But what's the point of that when plenty of other races fill that niche?
Now elven court paladins with super rare elven plate and elven courtblade? fun.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

I mean unless you're going to build a whole tribe of savage, retrograde elves.

For thematic purposes, those would be Wood Elves (fun fact: in my games, they all have a California surfer-dude way of speaking, distinct from the snooty French accents of the High Elfs). Imagine Thranduil's court had Thranduil been a total blood-thirsty hedonist. Oh, and he talks like a Ninja Turtle.

 

[Beoric]

Not gonna lie. I kinda hat elf berserkers. I mean unless you're going to build a whole tribe of savage, retrograde elves. But what's the point of that when plenty of other races fill that niche?
Now elven court paladins with super rare elven plate and elven courtblade? fun.

How about elf dervishes? Different flavour, same mechanic.

 

[Two orcs]

Not gonna lie. I kinda hat elf berserkers. I mean unless you're going to build a whole tribe of savage, retrograde elves. But what's the point of that when plenty of other races fill that niche?
Now elven court paladins with super rare elven plate and elven courtblade? fun.

Berserkergang isn't mindless fury but religious ecstasy granted by the Mad One to his best warriors. Actual savages have furtive fighting styles dominated by missile combat, because there isn't a civilization to properly reward a hero in life or in death. But read Silmarillion, it's obvious the elves and the elf-like men have the most instances of berserkergang (including the accidental slaying of friends).

 

[Beoric]

Berserkergang isn't mindless fury but religious ecstasy granted by the Mad One to his best warriors.

Right, 1e MM dervishes (not actual dervishes).

Actual savages have furtive fighting styles dominated by missile combat, because there isn't a civilization to properly reward a hero in life or in death.

I don't know about savages, but I know in some Indigenous North American polities counting coup was a thing. Also, the actual reason for asymmetrical tactics in nomadic cultures is they had low populations that could not sustain much in the way of casualties. Other forms of warfare result from agrarian cultures, not because they are "cilvilized", but because towns and cornfields aren't enormously portable and have to be defended in place.

 

[The1True]

The vulcan nerd-rage is probably still the best example, so far. Put that elf Cha bonus to good use by pumping it up with a Rage variant that focuses it into a massive situational Intimidate-related combat bonus.

 

[Malrex]

We are working on Berserking, Fury, and Primal Surge. I could see elves having more of the Fury path, a little similar to Two Orcs post:

"The second tradition is Fury, a disciplined divine wrath invoked by priests, chosen guardians, and warriors who
channel holy purpose rather than surrender to madness. Fury strengthens blows and steels the mind without
clouding judgment. It is a flare of righteousness, not a loss of control, and its power is often tied to oath, creed, or
sacred duty."

So its a bit different than a crazy berserker....Fury and Primal Surge are not as strong as Berserking in the sense of to hit and damage, and other benefits, but they don't lose their minds either. There may be more reasons needed for them to reach that state--protecting their homeland, or a elf companion, etc.

I was really into elves in highschool, but now its my least favorite race...so been a struggle to write the book, but luckily my hobby partner is more into them.

 

[Beoric]

We are working on Berserking, Fury, and Primal Surge. I could see elves having more of the Fury path, a little similar to Two Orcs post:

"The second tradition is Fury, a disciplined divine wrath invoked by priests, chosen guardians, and warriors who
channel holy purpose rather than surrender to madness. Fury strengthens blows and steels the mind without
clouding judgment. It is a flare of righteousness, not a loss of control, and its power is often tied to oath, creed, or
sacred duty."

So its a bit different than a crazy berserker....Fury and Primal Surge are not as strong as Berserking in the sense of to hit and damage, and other benefits, but they don't lose their minds either. There may be more reasons needed for them to reach that state--protecting their homeland, or a elf companion, etc.

I was really into elves in highschool, but now its my least favorite race...so been a struggle to write the book, but luckily my hobby partner is more into them.

If you have access to 5e Xanatar's Guide to Everything, you might crib from the Barbarian "Path of the Zealot". To summarize:

Level 3 - Divine Fury - "channel divine fury into your weapon strikes" - Once per round radiant/necrotic damage bonus
Level 3 - Warrior of the Gods - "your soul is marked for endless battle" - Raise Dead and Resurrection can be cast on you without material components.
Level 6 - Fanatical Focus - "the divine power that fuels your rage can protect you" - Reroll one saving throw per "rage"
Level 10 - Zealous Presence - "inspire zealotry in others" - Once per day to hit and save buff for party
Level 14 - Rage Beyond Death - "shrug off fatal blows" - You can keep fighting after hitting 0 hp, and you don't die until you stop raging

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Back to the subject of AI - I am having an absolute blast using Suno to make custom songs for my game groups. It's not perfect (especially the free version) and requires a hefty amount of tweaking, but I'm astounded at the stuff it comes up with. Really good music, though I'm sure it'd piss off a proper music aficionado (thankfully none in my groups). I've made entire albums about my groups' adventures, about character quirks, in-jokes, game hiccups, campaign lore, etc. Do recommend, even if AI is the devil.

 

[Beoric]

I'm finding ChatGPT to be useful for illustration, which I use for tokens. I'm justifying it because the choice isn't between using ChatGPT and commissioning an artist for a tongue-wolf token, it's between using ChatGPT and having a token labelled "TW".

Actual art, though? Not so much. In fact I am hard pressed to think of an image that I knew was generated by an LLM, and that I thought was good art. Or that I would even classify as "art".

 

[The1True]

Honestly, try NanoBanana.

Also, you really like that word "Tongue Wolf" don't you...

 

[DangerousPuhson]

I'm finding ChatGPT to be useful for illustration, which I use for tokens.

I didn't know it could do that, but then, I only visit the ChatGPT site for text-prompt stuff. Nanobannana looks decent - a pretty typical Gemini art generator - and I notice it uses tokens. When I want placeholder art, I've had good experiences with Stable Diffusion (old, but functional), which is free and let's you generate however much you want. Found it on GitHub.