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Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was Lopez now. I just saw them do a hastagMAGA thing, and figured it *could* be squeen. But now that he's posted more, I see it's more obviously Lopez, returning after being banned and being a fucking asshat about it.
 
I don't get the sense that Squeen would hide behind an Anonymous title. Like ever. Doesn't seem like his style.
 
Yeah, I realized after the fact. Appalled as I may be at his political leanings, squeen's ultimately a better dude than that.
 
I must apologize, I either planted the seed that this was squeen or I reaffirmed what was already suspected.

I also feel the need to add a few clarifications to the November unpleasantness. I wasn't seeking to cancel squeen, I simply had come to the same conclusion that Beoric had come to. The whole <REDACTED> thing was the last straw.

I have nothing against squeen, but I am going to have to maintain the block for the foreseeable future. Just as Beleriand sunk into the sea because of the intervention of the Valar, if I went full-throttle argumentation mode for him this board would become a desolate wasteland. I would also undermine my arguments by being one of the two obnoxious American Gen-X'ers arguing over American politics, which no one else is interested in. I'd end up looking wild-eyed and crazy too.

So, sorry squeen, this latest thing is probably partially my fault.

Anyway, this as leads back to my original take on this latest unpleasantness. It should've been ignored. Arguments aren't won on the internet. They simply go on forever.



The Heretic
 
Gen-X has polled several places as being the least obnoxious generation.

Also now I am apparently the new face of MAGA. Not too shabby for how seldom I post.
:cool:

You people are nuts.
 
Gen-X has polled several places as being the least obnoxious generation.
As an Elder GenX, I must sadly disagree with this. I was going to write that it was once true, but as I was trying to come up with examples, I realize the best we ever did was be better than the Boomers. Which was not a high bar, when we were the youngest cohort, and were young enough to pay no attention to the absolutely better Silent Generation.

But holy shit did we whine when we were young and Boomers dominated the job market. The whining was justified for a period of time.

But as time went on and we got those good jobs, and Boomers started to retire and mellow with age, we seem to have achieved a high of self-absorption, a quality we used to criticize the Boomers for. We lost all sympathy towards young people who were having the same difficult experiences that we once had. Now it's like, fuck you, I had it hard, you should too.

We have entirely forgotten the problems that we had starting out, as a result of which we seem to have no patience younger generations who are hitting a similar rough spot to our early experiences. We are now the biggest NIMBYs on the planet, always thinking that someones else should make whatever sacrifices we think are necessary.

My parents are Silent Generation. I remember when I was young and living in rural Alberta, how the center of life was always the community. The community I was in was too small to be incorporated, so there was no mayor or town council. If somebody wanted something done, they got together to figure out how to do it. One of the wealthier members of the community donated some land, and the community came together and build a community center with their own hands. The community had no kindergarten, so they organized, bought a beaten up one room schoolhouse, moved it to donated land, fixed it up and eventually built an extension on it. Public holidays were always centered around the community.

I see nothing of this now. GenX prioritizes, or at least rewards, fanatical self-interest. Public service is derided, public institutions are assumed to be wasteful and unnecessary, community groups and altruistic acts of kindness or charity are viewed cynically, and assumed to be no more than grifts or at best, resumé padding - and many participants use it as such. Treating those who serve the public like parasites drives the best and brightest away from public service or charitable work, because why should they have to put up with that shit?

We are in a spiral where we ignorantly criticize institutions, use that criticism to justify taking resources away from the institutions, which erodes institutional capacity, which reduces the level of service, which is treated of proof that the institutions were dysfunctional before the budget cuts, and is used to justify more cuts. Rinse and repeat.

GenX is now the generation in power, and under our watch an 80 period of relative peace and prosperity is coming to an end. International cooperation is giving way to interstate anarchy, aid is giving way to isolationism. We are creating a culture that sees kindness as weakness, and compassion as a threat. Acts of cruelty are lauded. Those with the power to be cruel are deemed to be virtuous, while being poor or powerless is treated as a character flaw.

Polls say what they say. Attitudes often don't match reality, but also polls can be cooked to create a preferred outcome. Also, we have absorbed so many of the traits of Boomerism that lots up people younger than us often think we are Boomers - we are the "forgotten generation," remember? So I will be skeptical until I meet these polls in the wild.

Well, that was depressing. Y'all have a nice day.
 
As usual, we see things from a very different point of view (US vs. Canadian?). Not "losers" vs. "winners", just voted most congenital.

As I see it, over the last 20 years---once the Greatest & Silent Gen aged out---the Boomers have wielded power & were re-waging the Culture War of the late 60's (unopposed), driving the West into suicidal ruin. There's a reason the late 2010's felt a lot like the uber-horrid 1970s.

Gen X just recently put the brakes on and (of all the demographics) went hardest for Trump. Taking a big axe to the corrupt government institutions is also a typical heavy-handed, no BS, GenX approach. The recent glorification of the 80's is likewise GenX pandering since the Reagan-era was far less self-hating and tumultuous than the decade and a half that preceded it.

GenX (because they remember the Soviet Union?) are, by-and-large, in a hurry to escape the quasi-communist, culture destroying, woke-ism. Recall that communism also infiltrated and subverted the (post-depression) liberal-socialist organizations in the late 60's too. By the 80's, unions had a bad rap and that (in part) paved the way for the globalism of the 90s that gutted US industry. History rhymes and GenX remembers our last prosperous feel-good era.

Also, to quote an insider who fled the previous US admin: it was "A bunch of Millennials running around with no coordination, each pursuing their own private agenda." Headless chicken scenario. Once again GenX got skipped between the two larger cohorts. The whistleblower was herself a Millennial and an Asian woman, so no white-guy/GenX rage there.
 
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Do you really only want to hear an echo of your own thoughts?
No, nobody here wants to hear anything about politics. I think we were all pretty clear about that. It only brings conflict. This is not a political forum; let's not bring politics into things.

Remember when we used to talk about books and adventures?
 
Oh...You People...:rolleyes:

Do you really only want to hear an echo of your own thoughts?
I don't do that, actually. I have friends on the right with whom I discuss politics, often to the point of agreement. I also keep an eye on what right leaning people are doing and thinking because, and I know this is going to sound crazy, I want to know what they are doing and thinking. I even read some conservative political blogs. I deeply regret the demise of the Progressive Conservative party in my country, whom I was often aligned with.

It would take a lot of work to have a meaningful discussion with you, because the first thing we would have to do is build a common vocabulary. For example, I'm pretty sure that when you use the word "woke," you mean something different from when I use the word "woke." Partisans on both sides of the divide have a way of taking a word used by the other that is merely descriptive, and piling a bunch of baggage onto it and using it to mean something entirely different. And then the new meaning gets picked up by other members of the group, and pretty soon both sides are using the word to mean different things. And what happens when you think that the other camp is saying something that they aren't, is you hear them admitting to something awful because you misunderstand what they are saying.

You want a frequently-occurring example with my lefty friends? It's like I'm constantly having to explain that no, you don't hate capitalism, you hate market failure, and all of the things you associate with capitalism are things that happen when capitalism isn't working properly. See: antitrust rules that are out of date and not enforced anyway.

We would also need to build a common view of significant historical facts, not to mention more recent events, as well as on the basics of economics. For example, I have no freaking idea what you are talking about when you talk about "the Culture War of the late 60s." Like, most of the big changes were in the 50s and early 60s. Brown v. Board of Education was in 1954. The first three Civil Rights Acts were 1957-64. The 24th Amendment was 1964. The voting rights act was 1965. The DoJ Civil Rights Division and the US Commission on Civil Rights were set up in 1957. What was even being accopmlished in the late 60s? The Fair Housing Act?

And if you mean all that stuff, which rights do you actually want to roll back? Letting Black people and women vote? Ending segregation?

I see nothing in what you have written that suggests you have any interest in meeting me halfway even in a casual discussion, let alone doing the work to have a real and meaningful dialog. Platitudes like how some undefined "Culture Wars" have "driv[en] the West to suicidal ruin" are not a sound basis for engaging in meaningful conversation. We are wealthier and healthier and fairer than we have ever been, what exactly are you talking about? The US has an economy that is the envy of the world, exactly how has US industry been "gutted"?

And also, what is your line in the sand, beyond which you would lose faith in Trump? What behaviour would be bad enough for you to abandon him? I'm not asking for some sort of general statement about him abandoning his principles, whatever they are. I mean, what are some concrete things that Trump could do or not do that would cause you to decide that maybe he isn't on the side of the angels.

That's the first question. The second is, what level of trust would be necessary for you to beleive that he had actuall crossed that line? If somebody produced incriminating documents or video evidence, would you accept it or beleive is was doctored? What authority to you trust enough to tell you a negative truth about Trump and make you believe it? I don't think there is one. I think you would write off pretty much anything as either (a) fake, (b) doctorered, (c) exaggerated, or (d) not actually that bad, or at least not bad enought to counteract the good you think he is doing.

I just have no confidence that you and I could have a meaningful conversation about this stuff. You accuse me of living in an echo chamber, so tell me, what sources of information do you listen to from people to the left of you? And do you ever find any part of their arguments persuasive? When was the last time anyone on the left said something that changed your mind about anything at all?
 
Second time you came at me unprovoked, so here we go:

GFY moron. You have the cognition and manners of a spoiled child.

(Did you understand that you pee-wee gestapo? Or do you need another lesson? Now fuck off imbecile!)
 
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