The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
PF grognards? don't tell Squeen!
5e - why you think it sucks, and why you're wrong
- Thread starter DangerousPuhson
- Start date
The Heretic
Should be playing D&D instead
I suppose I might qualify as one of those. I dunno. I just don't have interest in forking out money for another edition. Of anything.
Pseudoephedrine
Should be playing D&D instead
Even better! Because all the rules are free, I can literally link you to the explanations the game itself provides.
This is the adventure template section from the Gamesmastery Guide.
Here's one of the templates from that section:
While I would almost never actually use this straight as it is, I do think it's particularly useful to new referees trying to understand the scope of the task they're taking on by prepping "an adventure" and to spur some ideas. When I'm feeling particularly low energy or low imagination due to the rest of life, templates like this are good for helping make sure I've got the bare minimum ready.
Encounter Design has an initial set up in the Core Rulebook and then an additional set of advice in the Gamemastery Guide.
Here's the initial piece from the CRB (basically the math of encounter building) and here's the section from the GMG about putting flesh on those numbers.
Kingmaker's about to republished for PF2e and is probably the hottest 3rd party item in the entire PF 2e ecology right now. It raised about 11x its initial funding goal. Here's the web page for it.
The fanbase was definitely split, with a big chunk of people holding onto PF 1e. PF2e grabbed who it could from the old fan base, but has actually been having its biggest success recruiting new players and people who don't like 5e or have gotten sick of 5e's limits. Evidently it's growing quite quickly and doing extremely well for Paizo (better than PF 1e did, supposedly, tho' partially due to the sheer size of growth in the RPG hobby since PF1e was launched). The reason it isn't dethroning D&D 5e is the explosive pace that the 5e fanbase is growing at, which no other company has really matched yet.
I'd describe it as a bit of a sleeper hit overall. It's got a fairly large, passionate community that's very good at actively recruiting people to try it out, and many of those people like it and keep on playing it. It's buried under D&D 5e, but everything is atm. I have noticed lately that a bunch of 5e "influencers" are starting to provide various silly rationalisations about why they won't play Pathfinder (Ginny Di most recently) which to me suggests they're feeling a bit of pressure to "Play A Different Game" as the saying goes. I don't think PF 2e will kill 5e, but I do think it will survive the coming collapse of the D&D fad better than many of its competitors and end up as a well regarded contribution to the development of the hobby.
Pseudoephedrine
Should be playing D&D instead
The rules are entirely available for free online. You don't actually have to buy anything to play.
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
I was hoping to grab Kingmaker for my 3.5 game since I heard it had excellent domain management rules (although I've seen this refuted in one or two reviews). Maybe the originals will come down in price when the newer fancier version gets published?
The Heretic
Should be playing D&D instead
<looks at beloved books on book shelf> Uh...Kingmaker? Never heard of it.I was hoping to grab Kingmaker for my 3.5 game since I heard it had excellent domain management rules (although I've seen this refuted in one or two reviews). Maybe the originals will come down in price when the newer fancier version gets published?
The Heretic
Should be playing D&D instead
To continue though, I do have a critique for the domain management rules for Kingmaker. They're pretty good but I think they rely on the hex system started with...oh shoot, what was that 2e TSR campaign world? Birthright? Yeah, Birthright. I'm not fond of the hex system, especially this idea that you can only add land to your kingdom if it abuts the hexes you already control.
It's still worth checking out though.
It's still worth checking out though.
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
Yeah. yeah. You know I'm running low on options when I'm looking for PF AP's to buy. I'm up to date with my blOSR wishlist except for the impossibly priced Arden Vul hardcovers. I've got most of the classic TSR modules on my shelf and what's left skyrocketed in price during the pandemic. Even those weird 3rd party products Prince is so enamoured with have become ridiculously out of reach. Hell, even dodgy mid-nineties 2.5e adventures have become differently-abled in their pricing. I just wanted a mid-summer D&D pick-me-up
anyway, Kingmaker seemed like a good one.
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
I think someone did a 3rd party Kingmaker add-on overhauling the domain management system. I've eyeballed a couple of OSR titles covering the topic as well.
The Heretic
Should be playing D&D instead
I'm sure you can still purchase the PDF. <ducks>Yeah. yeah. You know I'm running low on options when I'm looking for PF AP's to buy. I'm up to date with my blOSR wishlist except for the impossibly priced Arden Vul hardcovers. I've got most of the classic TSR modules on my shelf and what's left skyrocketed in price during the pandemic. Even those weird 3rd party products Prince is so enamoured with have become ridiculously out of reach. Hell, even dodgy mid-nineties 2.5e adventures have become differently-abled in their pricing. I just wanted a mid-summer D&D pick-me-up
anyway, Kingmaker seemed like a good one.
I like Kingmaker, I've run Kingmaker, it is a good one even if I have sundry complaints about the rules for it.
The Heretic
Should be playing D&D instead
Also I should add that I've been leaning towards using regions/provinces rather than the hex system for domain play. Blame it on me re-playing Nobunaga's Ambition 2 on an NES emulator.
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
shakes fist
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
Aw man, sorry bro, I just really like me some hexes. I see 'em when I sleep. So satisfying...
Johann
*eyeroll*
Thanks for the example and the link. My curiosity has been satisfied (though this is absolutely not my cup of tea; still, if one goes for this type of campaign, clear templates may help, especially beginners).
Johann
*eyeroll*
(My chief objection to this approach is to pre-decide the difficulty of an encounter and how it will be resolved, e.g. through combat or a battle of wits etc. I love to leave that up to the players and to the dice (via reaction rolls etc.). But as I've said, this stuff might be helpful for certain types of campaigns. An interesting and systematic overview for sure.)
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
I am telling you man --- 3rd edition nostalgia is up next! Every generation...like clockwork.
The Legend of Dnd 3.5 | Mixed Signals
Straight-forward and open gaming. Ideas you can use, GM tools you need, reviews and podcasts you love.
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Thank goodness we are almost done with B/X.
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
I look forward to the eventual 4e revival. I am sure you will all be on board.I am telling you man --- 3rd edition nostalgia is up next! Every generation...like clockwork.
The Legend of Dnd 3.5 | Mixed Signals
Straight-forward and open gaming. Ideas you can use, GM tools you need, reviews and podcasts you love.
Thank goodness we are almost done with B/X.
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
Not sure if that will ever happen. It's a very small community, which reduces the chances of somebody stepping up to do it. Very few seem to be interested in publishing modules, which is really the only reason to make a retroclone; those that were interested in publishing have moved on to produce verbose railroads in 5e.
So far the only "retroclones" I have seen are people who really just want praise for their houserules. They are filled with new "cool" stuff, tend to deviate more and more over a startlingly short period of time (universally in ways that add nothing to the game but complications), and end up not being backwards compatible or readily convertible to the original. Pretty much all of them have died out after generating no interest from other 4e players.
EDIT: If someone was smart they would produce a bare-bones ruleset that remained essentially compatible with the original. You would need a minimum of classes, character options and monsters since most would-be players still have the original books. Monsters in particular can be kept to a minimum since it is so easy to make new ones, and modules would likely have new ones built from scratch every time. I expect you could fit it all in 2-3 staple-bound booklets.
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