Adventures you'd like to see
- Thread starter Evard's Small Tentacle
- Start date
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
How'd I map it? Probably the most ham-fisted way possible. I drew it with a pencil (about 4 times, in fairly rapid section).
Finally I got one I kinda liked.
Honestly, with each attempt, the scale was just too small. I wasn't using hex paper, just a blank sheet. The idea the finally helped me is that I wanted items-of-interest to be a day or two of (foot) travel apart --- you know --- otherwise they might as well be all jammed in a fun-house dungeon. I wanted the players to have a really sense of travel. Vastness.
I took my penciled map, colored with more pencils, and then scanned it. In GIMP I cut out some repeatable features as pasted them together. The result was a mish-mash --- but I kinda liked it. Here's the main map below (1 of 3, 1/10 scale) with a 6-mile hex thrown over top of it (in GIMP). It's a Frankenstein, but totally usable for me. The important thing again is the marked points (point-crawl) and terrain-type (for speed). The rivers, and the river-roads are splendid "natural railroads". The player pretty much follow them without being prompted. They learned pretty quickly that the wilderness can be dangerous.
Also, I once calculated the square-miles this one covers: its larger than the British Isles!
Probably not realistic, but that OK. This pocket-universe is not densely populated (by Men). I should probably add some more farm hamlets and manor houses. Always more to do...
Another note on distances...outside of Chicago, there is a road called "Half Day Road". That's because (by horse) it used to take a half-day to ge there! Based on some hiking my wife and I did in Spain, 18-24 miles (6-8 leagues) is about right for a day's march with a small pack. You can push it upwards to 30 miles, but that wears on your body if done day after day. (Hence the magic "10 league boots" in folklore --- a Day's travel in one step.) Another nice thing about it being so large is that there's plenty of room for the imagination --- every hex could have a hidden dell, stand of trees, or small lake or stream. Despite the size of the wilderness, my towns and citys tend to be 1/10th the population of say a Greyhawk or the Lost Lands settlement. I just can't handle keying something that high-density. (20,000-30,000 NPCs in a city!)
Last thing: I recently typed up an excellent Bat In The Attic blog post that discusses demographics.
Finally I got one I kinda liked.
Honestly, with each attempt, the scale was just too small. I wasn't using hex paper, just a blank sheet. The idea the finally helped me is that I wanted items-of-interest to be a day or two of (foot) travel apart --- you know --- otherwise they might as well be all jammed in a fun-house dungeon. I wanted the players to have a really sense of travel. Vastness.
I took my penciled map, colored with more pencils, and then scanned it. In GIMP I cut out some repeatable features as pasted them together. The result was a mish-mash --- but I kinda liked it. Here's the main map below (1 of 3, 1/10 scale) with a 6-mile hex thrown over top of it (in GIMP). It's a Frankenstein, but totally usable for me. The important thing again is the marked points (point-crawl) and terrain-type (for speed). The rivers, and the river-roads are splendid "natural railroads". The player pretty much follow them without being prompted. They learned pretty quickly that the wilderness can be dangerous.
Also, I once calculated the square-miles this one covers: its larger than the British Isles!
Probably not realistic, but that OK. This pocket-universe is not densely populated (by Men). I should probably add some more farm hamlets and manor houses. Always more to do...
Another note on distances...outside of Chicago, there is a road called "Half Day Road". That's because (by horse) it used to take a half-day to ge there! Based on some hiking my wife and I did in Spain, 18-24 miles (6-8 leagues) is about right for a day's march with a small pack. You can push it upwards to 30 miles, but that wears on your body if done day after day. (Hence the magic "10 league boots" in folklore --- a Day's travel in one step.) Another nice thing about it being so large is that there's plenty of room for the imagination --- every hex could have a hidden dell, stand of trees, or small lake or stream. Despite the size of the wilderness, my towns and citys tend to be 1/10th the population of say a Greyhawk or the Lost Lands settlement. I just can't handle keying something that high-density. (20,000-30,000 NPCs in a city!)
Last thing: I recently typed up an excellent Bat In The Attic blog post that discusses demographics.
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PrinceofNothing
High Executarch
I'm thinking you aren't talking about something that is teleportation/divination proof ey? Lemme think:
* I think the most obvious choice would be some invading horde or people, numberless beyond even the formidable abilities of the PCs to fight, and for once not led by a single BBE or glowing crystal thing that can be conveniently nuked to slaughter the lot of them. The heroes must use their diplomatic skills as well as their force of arms to get all the disparate kingdoms of the Known World into fighting shape to repel the invaders.
* A mythic quest that is seemingly impossible. The Gods have cursed God-king Karahasadar with a heart eternally wreathed in flame that burns him but never kills. Every person he has ever injured with his world-spanning conquests must forgive him. The PCs are promised a hundred concubines, ten triremes, a small satrapy, ten thousand slaves, their weight in emralds and any single favor they desire if they see this done. Karahasadar is genuinely repentant so the deed is not evil.
* The mysterious adversary the PCs face works through catspaws, hired killers, bribery and mind control. The PCs face a world-spanning game of cat-and-mouse that is fought in inns, ballrooms and behind the face of seeming friends and allies. He has gone to such extreme lengths to stay anonymous that he has petitioned one of the gods to hide his True Name! Shit! What an asshole!
* Any objective that involves a lot of reconnaissance might work. Probably best if the PCs don't know exactly what they are looking for. So it will take too many Contact Outer Planes spells to narrow it down before some catastrophe already happens. Just increase the scale. The PCs must venture to an ancient structure, built around a dying star since before men crawled like beasts. Facing no single foe but hazards of infinite variety, million year old alien wizards in the bodies of crumbling supercomputers, laser-beam flowers and orcs the PCs must discover who among the literally countless billions of inhabitants on this megastructure holds the secret that is worth killing for; a glass of perfectly tapped, perfectly cool heineken!
* Replace the invading monster horde with something lame, like world peace, a terrible plague or a famine, or something exciting, like having the PCs perform the Horse Sacrifice and having to conquer, submit or otherwise gain dominion over each country that the horse walks through!
* I think domain shit is fun but its a niche market and people that like it are only a subset of DnD players. Aren't counter-measures perfectly legitimate? No one complains that Sleep doesn't work on Skeletons. Counter-measures are alright if they do not become the standard.
* Use the Pc's Teleportation capability as an excuse to spread your dungeon around different locales and deliberately put them in the worst locations possible so the PCs can't stay there very long, and have to tackle each problem with careful recoinaissance, scrying and the right protection spells. In a recently active volcano, in the midst of a horrific apocalypse (Elder Things city in the distant past), in the lightless depths of the ocean, on the moon, in the mind of a criminal mastermind, in the stomach of a purple worm queen, during Ragnarok, In the Treasure Vault of Death, in the Prison of the Titans etc. etc. etc. Mabye getting all those shards of some Macguffin is a little hackneyed, but no one cares if its awesome enough. It will be like Ocean's Eleven with the fantasy avengers.
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
If I understand your point, Bryce complains frequently about things that are designed specifically to gimp abilities the players have earned, like the amulets against turning that the undead have in B2.
But all of that kind of isn't the point for me. It's less about the "scry" and more about the "die", that is, that mature characters still spend all of their time looking for things to kill so they can take their stuff. When I get to that stage as a player I kind of feel like my PC has paid his dues, maybe its time to start building something. I felt like that when I was a teenager, I certainly feel like that now that I am .... older.
And the idea that there is a never ending supply of high level threats to challenge the PCs rubs me the wrong way. High level PCs are rare, I feel like high level monsters should also be rare. So yeah, there can be the odd epic extraplanar quest involving gods and monsters out of myth; I just feel like it cheapens such quests if there is one every weekend. Mythic quests are nice for special occasions but a bit shiny for every day. The rest of the time I would rather spend usurping a corrupt king or building armies to crush the evil empire. Or misguided or incompetent empire, I'm not picky.
I do note that several of your examples - dealing with an invading horde, the unidentified adversary, and conquering nations - are the sorts of adventures I have in mind as part of domain play. But I need armies to deal with the invading horde or to conquer nations, and I will never track down the unidentified adversary if I don't have a position at court that allows me to know the right people. And once I have conquered a nation, I need people to run it, right? I'm not going to try to root out insurgents in every village myself.
And if the campaign relies on armies at all, a smart opponent is going to mess with your supply lines by staging raids, or using magic to create famines so you can't feed your army, or create various disasters that the army will have to deal with, or that lowers morale. And the opposing general is going to hit multiple points, so you can't attend to it all personally. Particularly if the opponent is a mysterious adversary working through agents; you think she will only hire one agent at a time? Some variation on domain play, where you have flunkies to delegate thing sto, only makes sense.
The Heretic
Should be playing D&D instead
Don't forget passwall!
I have an idea. Maybe as a way to dissuade the use of passwall, the wizard made the walls hollow and filled with acid/lava/angry demons/a diabolical locust swarm/whatever that will be released if the spell is cast.
We think it's fun as well, which is why we've been brainstorming it. I can't wait to see Beoric's finished module!
The Heretic
Should be playing D&D instead
That's an awesome map! The names on there make me think of Greyhawk. Also, is that really a fen?
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
Or maybe, if he is going to tunnel miles of corridor anyway, he could make them straight and spread out instead of winding with the whole dungeon level crammed into a 400' x 320' area, so that the open spaces are further than 10' apart, or even multiples of 10' apart. Milk your VTT to all its worth.
Fat chance! Like I'm going to relearn 1e, or figure out how to navigate WotC's IP maze. If I feel inspired I may write up an outline and a few notes and ideas, anyone who wants to run with it can.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
Thanks. Gnarlwood is Greyhawk inspired ("Gnarley Forest") --- I steal from *everywhere*. "Leave no trope unturned." is my slightly mixed-metaphor motto.
The Ogre Fens is hilly...but green and wet too. I imagine lots of deep ravines cut by streams. No way to know what lurking over the next hill.
Maybe not so much a boggy marsh, like a proper Fen ought to be....
...but, hey, man! It's my fantasy world! If I say that's a fen...then it's a gosh darn FEN! (simulationist!)
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
These are all wonderful Prince --- I see why Malrex speaks so highly of your writing skills.
Malrex
So ... slow work day? Every day?
Shhh...don't tell him I said that...now I got to put up with his strutting, boasting, energetic Hah's!, and what not....*continues to grumble*
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
There is an area like this where I grew up, the valleys between hills and near streams are dominated by grassy wetlands obscured by a maze of tall, seriously impenetrable scrubby bushes perhaps 9-12 feet tall on average. And I use the word "maze" advisedly, a maze that includes spots where you can crawl under waist high tangles of willow branches to get to small hidden clearings. I believe the precise term is a "carr" but it is not strictly wrong to refer to it by the less exact name of "fen".
The hills are dry, steep, and heavily wooded. In spite of the steep slopes they are relatively easy to navigate from the spring until midsummer, when the grass is low and deadfall can be spotted; but hiking is treacherous in the fall and winter when tall grass and snow obscure the uneven terrain.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
I too exclaim energetically Hah! Beoric "does-too" say it can be a Fen!
(Sticks tongue out at The Heritic, in the most mature way possible.)
(...and "Ogre Carr" conjures up images of Herman Munster wearing a too-small helmet and driving around a Go-Kart track.)
Seriously @B: I am going to paste this description directly into my source-book text almost verbatim. It's perfect. I would never have used the would "deadfall" in my own writing --- evocative!
Thank you.
The Heretic
Should be playing D&D instead
Thank you! I was looking up the different types of wetlands last night I noticed 'carr', so I tried to google search for it but only got hits for some company, so I decided to skip it. So that's what a carr is.
Lol it's true. You have my blessing to call it whatever you want. I'm just gobsmacked to discover that these terms for wetlands have such precise definitions. It's all because my PCs are headed into some orc infested hills, and I wanted to make the hills believable so I looked up 'hill' which turned into me realizing that it's a 'moor' and oh-hey-look-fens-have-a-specific-definition.
On a related note, do repetitive sections of one terrain type on a map drive you up a wall as much as it does me? As I mapped it this hilly area I dotted it with quagmires to liven it up a bit.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
Yes! That's why, when all is said and done, I will probably redraw all the maps by hand to add some variety. Repetition is boring.
On a related note (for those of the programming persuasion) I found a neat thesis on how to render procedural terrain based on user-inputted curves using some standard fractal algorithms. That way, you could draw the ridge-line for a mountain range and have the terrain generator make it pretty! (...twist your viewpointa bit and then BAM! an isometric.)
(Now looking up moors...your fault Heretic!)
PrinceofNothing
High Executarch
Thanks for clarifying. There's two ways to handle that I think. Either you decide that the character has had his fill of adventuring in younger days and now spends more time building a keep and administering justice and building roads and what-haveyou, a very low fantasy and probably satisfying sort of second half to the campaign, or you handle it full on 'and Alexander wept for there were no more worlds to conquer', leave the administration of domains to allies and friends, and see how high this bad boy can fly.
I agree with you that an infinite supply of threats coming to harangue the PCs in the manner of saturday morning cartoons is irritating but I see some appeal in the idea of the ever-greater-challenge...just as long as it extends beyond the world. I think that's why the planes were invented, to provide an almost limitless expanse of challenges that would render your normal existence on the medieval fantasy world utterly implausible. Suddenly you can credibly wield the unwanted gets of deities or the first Dragons or star-spanning empires of necromancers without it straining credibility.
I also think those challenges you have described should be part of high level play whether your PCs administer domains or not, since by now they should indeed be vastly powerful, respected and known forces, called upon to deal with such a threat and somehow incorporated into the power structure, or else branded enemies of the realm and hunted down with all available resources. Your assertion that domain play is a logical extension of the game rings true. I think my trepidation at Domain level play is that it differs relatively greatly from what comes before. I am for it, I think my question is more whether or not the administration of said domains should be the bread and butter of the game, or left in the background whilst the PCs handle the interesting bits (like the aforementioned warfare, diplomacy, marriages and peasant revolts).
You are kind. I am curious how they would play out in practice. I have run games up to...7th level I think. We never got much higher with oldschool games. Maybe someday, I am still young, and new games are afoot at the horizon.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
We hav taken 5+ years of regular play to get up to the 7-9th level. Slowly, almost organically, in the last half-year, they have got tangled in Realm politics, and have an impending battle-of-armies. I am going to try the ACKS combat rules for the later.
Interestingly, they will also face their first demon on the field. A true high-level threat.
Which will prove the most interesting? Hopefully we'll see this summer.
Interestingly, they will also face their first demon on the field. A true high-level threat.
Which will prove the most interesting? Hopefully we'll see this summer.
PrinceofNothing
High Executarch
Nice. It's long been my conviction that high-level play is only good if its earned, and starting off with high-level characters is weaksauce imitation. I love ACKS. Good economics, good lethality, good skill system. Very underrated game. The first few levels turn into a grotesque freakshow of hardbitten, dismembered killers scrounging together enough to afford a Restore Life And Limb spell. I love the mortality rules and the crippling injuries, and its a good solution to the somewhat excessive lethality of low level OSR.
Malrex
So ... slow work day? Every day?
I think that's one of the fun parts of adventure design. I constantly look up stuff and learn about things. What sort of creatures live in caves? What are some underwater animals that could be transformed to monsters...? I sit and watch Nature with a notebook..... Holy hells, wtf is kedging!! So that's how they did it back in the day...
(you looked it up, didn't you...).
Malrex
So ... slow work day? Every day?
I can't stop thinking about this. Choice would be taken away from players as they can only move in one direction--falling, unless they have magic. If you put solid islands out there and they land on them, they might die from the impact, yet they would strive to land on them to stop falling. I feel like there should be some sort of adventure, perhaps in the Elemental Plane of Air or elsewhere, where you start out just by falling. And waaaaay down, you see some sort of looming doom and you got to try to escape it by stopping your fall...but I don't know if it would be possible or better yet--fun. Would love to hear ideas because I keep thinking about this and trying to figure out if its possible to do an adventure with this feature.
I see people complain about adventures--underwater usually, how the designer makes it easy to breathe underwater or whatever. And I'm sure a free falling adventure or encased in stone adventure, the designer would need to put something in there to provide options for the players. I'm not sure I agree with faulting the designer for putting in items or whatever so that characters can have options to explore an environment, otherwise what is the point of the adventure? For players to maybe find the right items and then come back and re-visit?
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
I feel like they should naturally be falling toward the Elemental Plane of Earth.
However, I would look at it a different way. And I can't take credit for this, because it is an approach advanced by Keith Baker in the Eberron setting, but I like it very much. The planes are reflections and representations of reality. So the Plane of Air is about things having to do with air - being buffeted by winds, lightning storms, floating on a light breeze, the peace of a warm breeze, the deep chill of a cold breeze, or scouring erosion over time, depending upon where you are on the plane. Likewise, elementals are motivated to do those things that are done by the elements they represent, so air elementals can be playful and like to push and tug at things (unless they are angry, when they flatten and tear at things), and fire elementals want to burn things, and water elementals worry away and erode things and drown creatures, and earth elementals don't do anything quickly unless it is to grow things, or start earthquakes.
Falling is not an "air" thing, IMO. Falling might be something you would encounter on the Plane of Dreams, but not in the Plane of Air. Rather, in the Plane of Air you might float with no means of propulsion or steering, unless you can jury-rig a parasail out of a cloak and follow the winds, maybe even to somewhere specific if you can talk to them. And different parts of the Plane of Air might have different properties, so you might have the "Region of Eternal Storms" and the "Region of Poisonous Vapours". There might be earthmotes floating here and there, with their own gravity, but they would only exist to highlight the effects of air upon them, so you might get motes of scouring sandstorms, for example. And factions: there could be the "Breezes of Summer" or the "Winds of Bitter Chill". Imagine if your MU accidently summoned a Wind of Bitter Chill and was surprised to discover it was doing cold damage? Or a Breeze of Summer that could cast sleep spells?
The Plane of Earth could includes regions of solid stone but also regions of warm burrows, and regions of endless claustrophobic tunnels, and regions of lush plant growth, and regions of constant earthquakes.
The Plane of Water would have both surface and depths, regions of bottomless ocean and regions of sea caves and coral reefs, regions of calm water and regions of devastating waves. There would have to be some land, because otherwise what would water have to erode? The land could be tropical beaches, or rocky headlands constantly being worn away by the raging sea.
BTW, there are no planes of earth, air or water on Eberron, so all of that is fair game if you like it.
Perhaps. But if the adventurers choose to go there, surely they should prepare themselves? You don't leave a cache of lanterns and oil at the entrance of a dungeon in case the PCs forget to bring torches, do you?