Best laid out non-dungeon module?

[Beoric]

Here are a couple of examples of NPC descriptions inspired by procedural generation from my Hommlet campaign. These are from keyed entry 1:

Kaldor Farmer, LN male human farmer. Hard-working, compassionate; distinctive nose; has a deep phobia; worries about his brother the Widower (5); owes money to Ostler; bitterly hates moneylender.

Well Farmer, LE female human farmer. Friendly, prejudiced; large and rosy cheeked; will only help the party if she thinks she stands to gain something from it; has gossiped about the Cabinet maker's family, said one of the women had an affair with Elmo; likes to spread gossip, current target is the Widower (5), says he is drinking too much; intensely dislikes the brewer's apprentice because of his conversion to the Church of St. Cuthbert.

But what is still missing from these entries, and I think would be necessary to add in order to justify including them in the key of any published product, is something the PCs might want from them, and something they might want from the PCs. In Hommlet's case, this would probably include a connection to the alleged intrigues in the village. Of course, those intrigues would also need to be fleshed out, because despite spelling out various religious and secular affiliations, if we exclude the temple itself there is little hint of any religious or political tension. In fact, representatives from all of the factions sit together on the village council; and the militia, which includes various factions, operates as a cohesive group. Any tensions would have to be invented from scratch by the DM.

Well how about it! Our benevolent dictator, Mr. Bryce Lynch, just posted a glowing review of The Pit in the Forest --- a non-dungeon adventure with a village!

You might even suspect he reads his own forum!

You might, if he didn't start these reviews well in advance.

EDIT: That does look good. Bought it, reading it. Should we start a new thread to discuss, or continue off topic on this one?

 

[squeen]

You might, if he didn't start these reviews well in advance.

EDIT: That does look good. Bought it, reading it. Should we start a new thread to discuss, or continue off topic on this one?

Good point -- I forgot that.

Six of one to me (vis-a-vis a new thread)...but yeah, we aren't discussing Layout here for @Two orcs anymore (if at all?).

I think your entries work fine---but recall I like Hommlet's too. Yours come off a bit dry, Hommlet's are folksy. Something about the string-of-adjectives style is off-putting to me, e.g. "friendly. suspicious. lustful, etc.". I always get that artsy neo-OSR/Blue-Medusa vibe from it that I used to think was "the new way to go", but has already started to feel dated and formulaic.

Dunno what I want. I bought The Pit in the Forest, I'm going to study it a bit.

 

[Beoric]

I think your entries work fine---but recall I like Hommlet's too. Yours come off a bit dry, Hommlet's are folksy. Something about the string-of-adjectives style is off-putting to me, e.g. "friendly. suspicious. lustful, etc.". I always get that artsy neo-OSR/Blue-Medusa vibe from it that I used to think was "the new way to go", but has already started to feel dated and formulaic.

Yes, that's because they are my notes, not meant for publication. I keep them in a NPC summary table, and would probably write a keyed entry differently.

A bit over halfway through The Pit in the Forest. NPCs are pretty close to perfect. I note every one has a reason the PCs might want to interact with it.

 

[The1True]

Again, not trying to be contradictory or shit all over Barrowmaze or anything, but do other people not find this description lacking in critical information, or is it just me?

Yeah, I can definitely see what you're saying now that you point it out. Somehow I just saw what I wanted to see in it I guess and ran with it?

I mean I know he's a grizzled veteran (the title for 3rd level is 'Veteran' in old dnd I believe).
I know he works with fighting men, so I'm picturing the frazzled guy working out of the back office at the skip-trace agency.
He's Lawful which honestly could mean anything but I choose to interpret as Lawful Neutral in this case since some of his clients are probably pretty rough guys.
He works with Turgen of Turgen's Trade Goods and the Silver Standard Merchant Caravan which is a whole thing unto itself obviously not described here, so he's plugged into local trade and keeping order on the roads and goods moving back and forth.
I did clip the headshot out and include it in the PC's journal. You can see he's unshaven and got a weary, sardonic expression. To me, that reinforces that he's used to dealing with murder-hobos and their retainers and doesn't scare easily or put up with any shit.
I also know his business booms in the summer months when the PC's might be dropping by looking for cannon-fodder or looking for work.
If I had to slap a template on him, he'd be the world-weary "I want your badge and your gun!" police chief, stuck behind his desk-type character.

Anyway, that's what I got from it, but as I said, I can see what you're saying about the lack of directly evocative information.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Anyway, that's what I got from it, but as I said, I can see what you're saying about the lack of directly evocative information.

Yeah, I think this just ties into general usability best practices. Extra information is technically there (you can extrapolate to flesh out the character), but there's a lot to infer/invent, which is not ideal for a DM to be doing mid-interaction. If you didn't read about him ahead of time and write out some roleplay points, you'd either be stammering through the interaction, or come out with a really flat/boring NPC that the players won't care about.

I really like the idea of NPCs being covered in a Roster section that highlights all the relevant roleplay/interaction stuff as needed to run an encounter with the NPC right there. Appearance, mannerisms, attitudes, affectations... those kinds of elements that make the character into something tangible for the players. Agendas and friendship webs and whatnot are good, but they are the mechanisms that lie below the surface - the DM doesn't need them up front and at hand, so they shouldn't be obscuring the pertinent stuff.

 

[The1True]

the DM doesn't need them up front and at hand, so they shouldn't be obscuring the pertinent stuff.

Maybe just a quick sentence and an abbreviated stat block up front for the on-the-fly action.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Olaf Patterson, Store Clerk - tall, rail-thin and twitchy; has a habit of speaking in a creepy way, even though his intentions are benign.

STATBLOCK

He wants the party to deliver a sealed envelope to his ex-wife ("...but DON'T OPEN IT!"), in exchange for a handful of malformed silver nuggets (44sp). He will also pay full price for used weapons, and gets visibly excited by pieces with bits of viscera dried onto them.

 

[The1True]

Probably that last sentence belongs in the NPC roster at the end. But yeah, that!

 

[squeen]

The descriptions and NPC's in Barrowmaze's Helix are pretty decent. Possibly redundant in that he often describes the business owner under the location and then again (but differently) under the character description... An example:

I have been on the fence about getting Barrowmaze for quite awhile, so thanks for putting this up.

4. Mercenary Guild

This building serves as the home of the mercenary guild in Helix. Osen, the Guildmaster, created a business for himself recruiting men-at-arms, classed henchmen, porters, torch-bearers, and guides to serve adventurers and expeditions into the Barrowmoor and the surrounding region. In the spring and summer months, when the population of Helix swells with the influx of lowly adventurers, scoundrels, and rogues, Osen and his guild manage to bring order to the village. The locals jokingly refer to the mercenary guild as “The League of Ordinary Gentlemen.” The roster of men and women available for hire should be randomly determined by the Referee. I suggest you use Meatshields: The Classic Fantasy Hireling and Henchmen Generator available at

Guildmaster Osen

(Level 3 Fighter/Retired) AL: L, AC: 8 (Leather), HP: 22, AT: 1, DMG: Shortsword (1d6),

S 14, I 13, W 13, D 13, C 10, Ch 13.

Guildmaster Osen, a retired former adventurer with grey receding hair, came to Helix last summer when he heard of the discovery of a great field of Barrow Mounds in the Barrowmoor. Although his adventuring days are now behind him, Osen created a mercenary guild to represent and organize local labour. The recent rumours of gold and treasure in Barrowmaze ensure Osen has a steady stream of desperate (and greedy) ne’er-do-wells hoping to make a quick gold piece. Osen and Turgen the merchant are friends. Osen often has dealings with Turgen and the Silver Standard Merchant Caravan Company who require armed escort of their wagons to neighboring villages.

Those are culled from two different descriptions as I said. Maybe on the wordy side, but not too bad. Notes important connections and offers a rough idea of personality and motivations.

It is too wordy, and the "League" joke is an anachronism that should be left out. Also, I really, really, really, hate the whole head-shot thing --- cartoon-y or not. It stomps on my imagination something fierce --- and the WotC products are using it heavily to push an agenda. It detracts far more than it adds...but it's cheap and easy "art" to stuff a product with. No thanks---pay someone to do a full, evocative rendeing of the settings instead....I know what a human looks like. The implied focus is wrong. It comes off trashy.

I'm also reluctant to put in attributes for NPCs most the time --- I'd rather add them if-and-when they join the party. I feel like (layout wise) it's a cluttering string of meaningless letters and number that really breaks up the flow of the text.

I'm on the fence about NPC is a separate section or in-line.

Otherwise, I'm cool with it.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Also, I really, really, really, hate the whole head-shot thing --- cartoon-y or not. It stomps on my imagination something fierce --- and the WotC products are using it heavily to push an agenda. It detracts far more than it adds...but it's cheap and easy "art" to stuff a product with.

Headshots pushing an agenda? OK, that's a different (and batshit crazy) take on game art... sure...

 

[The1True]

I clipped the headshot from margin-art in the book.
Attributes are useful to most of the rest of us for the purposes of opposed rolls etc. so need to be included.
This is a guy you can also encounter at the tavern and thus some history to relate to inquisitive PC's is appropriate.
The writer is a big fan of the old-school tendency to hire numerous henchmen/torch carriers/porters. Describing them, their boss and the workings of his agency is also appropriate. I cut out the link to his fun online Henchman generator.
If you hate the League joke then you're really going to hate the name of the Village, Helix, a tribute to an obscure bit of Canadiana . The adventure is peppered with tributes to D&D trivia and other obscure awesomeness, but it's never silly. It's okay to have a laugh at the gaming table once in a while...

and the WotC products are using it heavily to push an agenda.

What is this nefarious agenda?
Art, like pizza and sex, is ALWAYS good unless it's utterly unrelated to the product, imho.

 

[squeen]

I clipped the headshot from margin-art in the book.
Attributes are useful to most of the rest of us for the purposes of opposed rolls etc. so need to be included.
This is a guy you can also encounter at the tavern and thus some history to relate to inquisitive PC's is appropriate.
The writer is a big fan of the old-school tendency to hire numerous henchmen/torch carriers/porters. Describing them, their boss and the workings of his agency is also appropriate. I cut out the link to his fun online Henchman generator.
If you hate the League joke then you're really going to hate the name of the Village, Helix, a tribute to an obscure bit of Canadiana . The adventure is peppered with tributes to D&D trivia and other obscure awesomeness, but it's never silly. It's okay to have a laugh at the gaming table once in a while...

I like Meatshields --- and Helix/etc. jokes are good, but the in-game characters shouldn't be able to "get" them, right?

The head shots are a serious detraction for me because they rarely (never?) match up well with my imagined aesthetic. That's why I think the art shouldn't be too character-y---mostly figures-at-a-distance, so that can be abstracted. Elmore art did that to me too. His detailed facial features frequently looked like they were lifted out of 1980's GQ or Vogue magazines. Not the image I want in my mind's eye!

WotC's agenda is world-domination, of course! ...Isn't it always?

 

[The1True]

The head shots are a serious detraction for me because they rarely (never?) match up well with my imagined aesthetic. That's why I think the art shouldn't be too character-y---mostly figures-at-a-distance, so that can be abstracted. Elmore art did that to me too. His detailed facial features frequently looked like they were lifted out of 1980's GQ or Vogue magazines. Not the image I want in my mind's eye!

WotC's agenda is world-domination, of course! ...Isn't it always?

You're not one of those people like my brother who hates the LOTR movies and GoT TV series because they don't match the way he imagined the books are you?...

Ah c'mon, Elmore gave us Snarf Quest and that badass mofo on the cover of the Companions Rules box set. Now Caldwell was the Leifeld of the DnD golden-age artists!

You're dodging my WOTC question. Is that because the answer falls under the Verboten Politischen umbrella? (because then I'm even MORE interested...)

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Somebody get squeen on Alex Jones, ASAP! The world needs to hear about how headshots are going to turn all the frogs gay! WotC is trying to sneak 5G into D&D through candy-class vaccines!

 

[The1True]

Q told me so!

 

[Beoric]

Full colour, distinct head shots are helpful for creating tokens for your on-line game.

Loved the first season of Helix. Teenage boy me really liked Snarfquest, for some reason.

Trashing Q, really? Since we're getting political, I bet you guys think the world is round, too. Everyone knows that's just a government conspiracy to control us! If the earth is round, how come people don't fall off the south poll, huh? Huh? The Bedford Level Experiment proved it, refraction isn't real! The truth is out there. (I mean, waaay out there!)

 

[squeen]

What is Q?

 

[Beoric]

QAnon. Specifically, "Q" is the alias of the anonymous prophet pushing the QAnon theory.

 

[Two orcs]

What is Q?

Alex Jones is sick of Q - YouTube

 

[EOTB]

You're not one of those people...

Whenever someone starts off a sentence like this, I always interrupt to tell them whatever they were about to say they need not bother; they should consider me one of those people, whomever those people are.

People who base an identification around not being one of some people are boring, cautious, and seekers of social status.