Book Fucking Talk

[logruspattern]

As is evident by my screen name, I'm a Zelazny fan. I think I've read most of his work, including the good, the bad and the ugly. My plug for his best works would be:

- The Amber series: My intro to Zelazny. Prince already gave the gist. I would add that the Law and Chaos duality in the book seems very much like the B/X version of alignment with just the poles of law and chaos and without good and evil. The publication times for Amber and B/X check out on this such that it may have been the inspiration for it.

- Don't forget the Amber short stories. If you can find them.

- Lord of Light is my favorite work of his. Prince described it as science fiction, but the planet it is set on is low-tech but for the planet's ruling class such that it also has many elements of a fantasy setting. It's a good mix of both.

- This Immortal: Zelazny works with the stuff of Greek myth in this one. It is set on Earth post nuclear holocaust. An intelligent alien species has made contact and treats humanity and Earth peacefully but with condescension. Radiation has made most of the planet uninhabitable. For obvious reasons but also because enough time has passed that the wildlife and people have mutated into creatures of myth and legend. The character of Hassan the assassin is excellent.

- A Night in the Lonesome October: I recommend this one as well.

- Donnerjack: One of his later ones that is among the best of his work. A brilliant Scottish computer scientist has created a system that allows humanity to interface with a virtual world that exists independently of our own. Among the virtual world's inhabitants are Death, with whom Donnerjack makes a Faustian bargain.

- Among Zelazny's short stories, many are worth reading. "For a Breath I Tarry" is a retelling of Faust with robotic protagonists. When I read the background for Anomalous Subsurface Environment, I immediately thought it might have been inspired by this story.

I rate Zelazny's prose highly in his best works. I also think he is a master of atmosphere. Specifically, he evokes the sense of a wider world within a few sentences. He'll give you just enough so that your mind can fill in the blanks. I compare this to Game of Throne's tedious world-building. I'm not interested in the fashions of Westeros or what's for breakfast. Zelazny would be my best example of this skill that was discussed in the Ambiance, Allusions, and Limitations thread.

 

[Beoric]

I like Zelazny. Also Brust, who was heavily influenced by him in his early work.

 

[squeen]

I try to reread Lonesome October a chapter-a-day every year. Great little whimsical book.

 

[logruspattern]

Beoric: Brust who?

Squeen, I have seen someone mention exactly that on another forum. Maybe it was you.

I admit with some shame that I am a far less avid reader than I used to be. Partly due to other interests. Partly due to difficulty finding new things to read without just grabbing any random book. It used to be I just jumped between the sci-fi and fantasy greats and always had something to read. Now I've exhausted much of my supply in that regard. Partly due to a skepticism of book recommendations. I am aware of the irony.

One source of book recommendations that has rarely let me down has been the NPR book reviews (National Public Radio for non-Americans). One might dismiss NPR depending on one's political views. Oh so wrong. NPR has led me to such gems as:

Bad Paper: a nonfiction look at the dysfunctional, seedy, unjust world of debt collection in the US post 2008 financial crisis. I already wonder what books will emerge about the country's current situation when it has only just begun writing about the last crisis.

Black Wings Has My Angel: crime noir after the second world war. Violent, gritty, dark. The protagonist is not a gumshoe but the criminal. The story is about a heist and the consequences of it.

Kent Anderson: this author wrote three books all about the same protagonist (Hanson) who seems largely a fictionalized version of himself. The first, Sympathy for the Devil, covers his time as a Green Beret in Vietnam. It is the best book about war I've read in fiction or nonfiction. Hanson turns from being a college boy to someone who liked being in the war and who liked the killing. Night Dogs covers Hanson's time as a cop in Portland, Oregon. It also flashes back to more Vietnam memories. In The Green Sun Hanson goes back to being a cop, this time in Oakland. This being after he taught English as a college instructor. The books are highly critical of the US military, American policing (excessive force and mistreatment of minorities and, well, of anyone), and how American society deals with both. Also just critical in general of Americans. Does criticism of America bother you? Hanson doesn't care. He was in the war and if you annoy him, he may kill or critically injure you...if only because he can.

Hanson can't be forced into one of the two American political molds, which I like. The books are highly relevant now. Though when have those topics not been? It's a take from a white American former soldier and cop, so it's not exactly going to diversify anyone's book shelf in that regard. Though at some point I think the books are deserving of a read.

Edit: expanded detail on "Black Wings..."

 

[Beoric]

Beoric: Brust who?

Steven Brust.

 

[logruspattern]

Steven Brust.

Thank you.

 

[PrinceofNothing]

- Lord of Light is my favorite work of his. Prince described it as science fiction, but the planet it is set on is low-tech but for the planet's ruling class such that it also has many elements of a fantasy setting. It's a good mix of both.

It's almost a question of conscience whether you consider it SF or Fantasy. I'd say it's one for Science Fantasy category, and it couldn't be in better company.

What is your opinion on Shadowjack?

 

[logruspattern]

What is your opinion on Shadowjack?

I read it once and never found a reason to revisit it. I don't remember much but for thinking that it seemed like practice for Amber. I think he covers some of the same ideas in both. Apparently there is the novel, Jack of Shadows, and the short story, "Shadowjack." I assume I've read both. Also: searching for 'Shadowjack' online does not bring up Zelazny in the top results.

It's almost a question of conscience whether you consider it SF or Fantasy. I'd say it's one for Science Fantasy category, and it couldn't be in better company.

Zelazny writes little hard science fiction. Most of the science is so hand-wavey that I'd describe most of his stories as (science) fantasy. Regardless of the backdrop I think his best stories are entertaining and engage with ideas about art, humanity and (im)mortality that I have seen nowhere else. And his writing in his best works is top notch.

A few more of his best short stories:

"This Moment of the Storm": The narrator is cast loose from a normal timeline because he travels interstellar so often and spends the time in cryosleep. The story itself takes place during an epic storm on another planet.

"Come Back to the Killing Ground, Alice My Love": The rest of the story is as good as the title. A legendary archer is hired to slay someone at the center of a killer dungeon located in a pocket dimension. Apparently the only way to kill the target is with a singularity-tipped arrow.

Very true. I read all of the Faffhrd & the Grey Mauser stories. They are almost all good, though they decline near the end as more wacky shit gets introduced. The once exception is the last collection, the Knight & Knave of Swords, which is so awful I put it down halfway through and sold it off so it would not tarnish my collection.

Leiber's writing I rate as highly as Zelazny's with the exception that I think Leiber's writing is consistently good. Zelazny has more peaks and valleys. I admire Leiber's ability to present really convincing characters in Fafhrd and Grey Mouser. I imagine that Leiber was highly empathic and put much thought into what his characters would feel and how they would react in a situation. Example: Fafhrd and Mouser's mental breakdown after an intense, prolonged hide-and-seek combat with bandits around a forest clearing. The combat itself was different: a lot of build up to the climax of the kill. They knew their survival was a close thing and they were sickened by the killing. The only similar thing I've seen is on an episode of Rick and Morty when they have a harrowing adventure right at the beginning and break down knowing that their survival was a near thing.

I liked the whole of the Fafhrd and Grey Mouser series. I've read it multiple times. Including the last book. It handles what few, if any stories do: what happens when your epic heroes and adventurers age? Plus F&G get henchmen. What made you put it down?

Edit: Spelling.

 

[squeen]

"Come Back to the Killing Ground, Alice My Love": The rest of the story is as good as the title. A legendary archer is hired to slay someone at the center of a killer dungeon located in a pocket dimesnion. Apparently the only way to kill the target is with a singularity-tipped arrow.

I have been looking for the title to this story! Read it along time ago...and enjoyed it.
Thank you.

 

[PrinceofNothing]

I read it once and never found a reason to revisit it. I don't remember much but for thinking that it seemed like practice for Amber. I think he covers some of the same ideas in both. Apparently there is the novel, Jack of Shadows, and the short story, "Shadowjack." I assume I've read both. Also: searching for 'Shadowjack' online does not bring up Zelazny in the top results.

Yeah sorry I meant Jack of Shadows. I looked it up because of its inclusion in Appendix N but I was a little underwhelmed. It does have some elements of Amber but nowhere near its intricacy. You were talking about the world building. What makes Amber so interesting is that most of its geography is amorphous, it is instead determined more by its actors then its locations (although the palace and the pattern are fascinating places).

Zelazny writes little hard science fiction. Most of the science is so hand-wavey that I'd describe most of his stories as (science) fantasy. Regardless of the backdrop I think his best stories are entertaining and engage with ideas about art, humanity and (im)mortality that I have seen nowhere else. And his writing in his best works is top notch.

I think that lack of SF might be more of a style thing then anything else. Zelazny always struck me as more of a New Wave era author (I might be right about that, he started in the 60s and was very prolific during the 70s), and Hard SF boomed mid-80s-90s under Baxter, Greg Bear, Benford and even into the early 2000-2010s with Reynolds and Peter Watts. I like his stuff, it's very unorthodox. Have you ever had the pleasure of reading John M. Harrison btw?

I liked the whole of the Fafhrd and Grey Mouser series. I've read it multiple times. Including the last book. It handles what few, if any stories do: what happens when your epic heroes and adventurers age? Plus F&G get henchmen. What made you put it down?

I love Faffhrd & the Grey Mouser but I think you could see the decline coming in his later years. His pitch perfect prose started wavering, he became verbose, his sentences get clumsier, and his bottomless creativity becomes less fecund and we get recurring characters etc. etc. Swords & Ice Magic was barely tolerable with the inclusion of "Rime Isle" to prop up a very lacklustre volume. The Mingols, The Aesir, different villains, it felt like a worthy sendoff. In the rest of the volume, the gods were reduced in mystery and the recurring cast of enemies made everything feel small.

I got about halfway into Knight & Knave of Shadows before I couldn't take it anymore. Gone was my hero Fritz Leiber, whose prose and wit knew nary a bound, and whose adventures made me forget the hardships of everyday life and gave me solace in these uncertain times. Instead we have doddering old man Leiber, writing about the sad, bumbling last days of two once great heroes. There was weird gratuitous sex stuff that felt out of place, I recall a scene where Grey Mauser is a ghost in the wall watching some guy getting off with an...underage? girl (and possibly jerking off in the meantime, maybe that was my erroneous recollection). A sad end to what is arguably the best S&S series of all time.

I would have liked it had it been S&S, or if the characters had had a sort of closing of their arc? Or maybe one last glorious hurrah? Maybe Faffhrd goes back to the Snow women? Or Mauser tries to become the lord of the Thieves Guild? I didn't mind the ending to Rime Isle but it felt like a good send-off, making this last book gratuitous.

"Come Back to the Killing Ground, Alice My Love": The rest of the story is as good as the title. A legendary archer is hired to slay someone at the center of a killer dungeon located in a pocket dimesnion. Apparently the only way to kill the target is with a singularity-tipped arrow.

Yeah that sounds baller.

 

[logruspattern]

I think that lack of SF might be more of a style thing then anything else. Zelazny always struck me as more of a New Wave era author (I might be right about that, he started in the 60s and was very prolific during the 70s), and Hard SF boomed mid-80s-90s under Baxter, Greg Bear, Benford and even into the early 2000-2010s with Reynolds and Peter Watts. I like his stuff, it's very unorthodox. Have you ever had the pleasure of reading John M. Harrison btw?

I have not read any John Harrison. The name is new to me. I tend to think of hard SF as the earlier authors such as Clarke, Asimov, Heinlein, Niven, Pournelle. I'm not familiar much at all with newer SF authors or works. Much of that has to do with the the fact that the first 5 anthologies of Hugo and Nebula award winning stories sit on my book shelves. I found them a good way to get acquainted with some names worth reading in the genre. I haven't moved much beyond them.

As an aside, I've found the Atomic Rockets website to have some good recommendations for hard SF books. It's a fairly interesting website and rabbit hole to lose time on in any case.

I love Faffhrd & the Grey Mouser but I think you could see the decline coming in his later years. His pitch perfect prose started wavering, he became verbose, his sentences get clumsier, and his bottomless creativity becomes less fecund and we get recurring characters etc. etc. Swords & Ice Magic was barely tolerable with the inclusion of "Rime Isle" to prop up a very lacklustre volume. The Mingols, The Aesir, different villains, it felt like a worthy sendoff. In the rest of the volume, the gods were reduced in mystery and the recurring cast of enemies made everything feel small.

I got about halfway into Knight & Knave of Shadows before I couldn't take it anymore. Gone was my hero Fritz Leiber, whose prose and wit knew nary a bound, and whose adventures made me forget the hardships of everyday life and gave me solace in these uncertain times. Instead we have doddering old man Leiber, writing about the sad, bumbling last days of two once great heroes. There was weird gratuitous sex stuff that felt out of place, I recall a scene where Grey Mauser is a ghost in the wall watching some guy getting off with an...underage? girl (and possibly jerking off in the meantime, maybe that was my erroneous recollection). A sad end to what is arguably the best S&S series of all time.

I remember that, before reading the last book in the series a second time, I wasn't looking forward to it as much as the other books based on my first reading. Yet upon reading it a second time I wasn't disappointed. While I have a vague recollection that the prose may not have been as good as his previous works, I still found it serviceable. I still liked it and when I read the series a third time, I won't skip the last book.

I didn't get the impression that Leiber had becoming a "doddering old man" in his writing either. I found it to be more of an old man indulging himself by pushing the "dirty old man" stereotype if anything. The stories were published shortly before his death when he was in his late 70s. Maybe he knew his end was near and he just said, "Fuck it." I can respect that greatly. Even then the gratuitous sexual content of the last book was the least objectionable moment of the series to me. More than anything I was disappointed by the Mouser's "ravaging" of an assassin sent to kill him in one of the earlier books. The Mouser's spying on one of his previous loves / archantagonists as she indulged in the torture of her servants bothered me less as a reflection of the Mouser's or Leiber's character. The Mouser wasn't gratifying himself while watching; he was being tortured by Death's sister who used his arousal as a means to punish him.

According to his Wikipedia entry Leiber lived through some personal rough times. Our Lady of Darkness is a strong novel that, while written before the last F&M book, comes after what seems to have been the worst of his alcoholism and personal hardships. It may redeem him for you, particularly as it has autobiographical elements and he confronts his downfalls in part on the pages. The story itself is a good take on horror that reminds me of Lovecraft; there is a crazy scholar who writes an enigmatic book that posits an evil magic that is created as a result of living cities and modern urban life. I think it is much better than any of Lovecraft's writing.

 

[PrinceofNothing]

I have not read any John Harrison. The name is new to me. I tend to think of hard SF as the earlier authors such as Clarke, Asimov, Heinlein, Niven, Pournelle. I'm not familiar much at all with newer SF authors or works. Much of that has to do with the the fact that the first 5 anthologies of Hugo and Nebula award winning stories sit on my book shelves. I found them a good way to get acquainted with some names worth reading in the genre. I haven't moved much beyond them.

Ah man, I cut my teeth on Herbert, Niven, Asimov and A.E, van Vogt when I was still a teenager. Your compilation is good stuff. Heinlein got a lot wackier in his latter years, and I don't think I'd ever call Asimov Hard SF but especially for short stories those guys are gold.

I didn't get the impression that Leiber had becoming a "doddering old man" in his writing either. I found it to be more of an old man indulging himself by pushing the "dirty old man" stereotype if anything. The stories were published shortly before his death when he was in his late 70s. Maybe he knew his end was near and he just said, "Fuck it." I can respect that greatly. Even then the gratuitous sexual content of the last book was the least objectionable moment of the series to me. More than anything I was disappointed by the Mouser's "ravaging" of an assassin sent to kill him in one of the earlier books. The Mouser's spying on one of his previous loves / archantagonists as she indulged in the torture of her servants bothered me less as a reflection of the Mouser's or Leiber's character. The Mouser wasn't gratifying himself while watching; he was being tortured by Death's sister who used his arousal as a means to punish him.

I think the decline in writing ability is the most disappointing about his later work. Summertime Leiber is the epitome of S&S; Short, punchy, eloquent stories about daring heroism against a backdrop of savage wilderness or the dark alleys of a fantasy metropolis. Ideas and characters burst off the page. Witty banter. Combine this with a light-heartedness seldom seen in S&S without doing any damage to the atmosphere and you have yourself a rare treat.

With K&KoS little remains of these strengths. Stories stretch out to brobdignagian lengths. Gone is the witty banter and the pulse-pounding heroism. Gone the boundless creativity. Instead elements from Swords And Ice Magic are recycled, the story meanders and trundles along and is lost in introspection, our protagonists are often relegated to the state of passive observers. I consider S&S a medium that derives from pulp and as such the heroes characters are often defined by deeds and actions. They are active. Often a single uttered sentence suffices grant further characterization. That finesse is simply no longer present. This is understandable, as authors often have a period in which they perform their greatest work and start to decline. I loved Niven's Ringworld and Ringworld Engineers is great but any Ringworld book after that is mediocre at best. Sometimes the fire just goes out of someone.

As for the erotic scene, I think the difference between those two is that the assassin's ravishment (which I had forgotten) takes place in mere sentences, it is not drawn out, dwelled upon, merely a darker aspect of Mauser's character, who was always the more merciless of the two. Contrast this with the scenes in KaKoS, where the scenes are agonizingly drawn out, sprawling across pages. They do not serve a greater point, they are (in this case quite literally) pornography. Granted, some salaciousness was always a part of Nehwon, but this felt like it was written with one hand, and there was not enough good stuff. I didn't sign up to endure endless chapters of ghost torture whilst an old faffhrd bumbles across Rime Ilse in vain search of rescue. I signed up for Sword & Sorcery. Ergo the dislike.

According to his Wikipedia entry Leiber lived through some personal rough times. Our Lady of Darkness is a strong novel that, while written before the last F&M book, comes after what seems to have been the worst of his alcoholism and personal hardships. It may redeem him for you, particularly as it has autobiographical elements and he confronts his downfalls in part on the pages. The story itself is a good take on horror that reminds me of Lovecraft; there is a crazy scholar who writes an enigmatic book that posits an evil magic that is created as a result of living cities and modern urban life. I think it is much better than any of Lovecraft's writing.

Leiber doesn't need redeeming for me. I loved his earlier stuff and I'd recommend it to anyone who wants to figure out what D&D is about, probably as the first, but I will totally take that recommendation and buy it if I come across it. Leiber is probably a better writer then Lovecraft overall, but Lovecraft has a few areas like his creativity and his penchant for creating enduring disturbing fiction where I'd give advantage to Lovecraft. There's something about the way Lovecraft hints at and evokes horror and entwines it with existing legend, while only magnifying the horror, that is singular. With many fantasy authors you end up with a diluted substitute if they alter myth. With Lovecraft, the horror is augmented, and reality is far, far worse then what our forefathers have passed on. What would you say is Lovecraft's strongest work, given that you consider Our Lady in Darkness much better?

 

[logruspattern]

Leiber is probably a better writer then Lovecraft overall, but Lovecraft has a few areas like his creativity and his penchant for creating enduring disturbing fiction where I'd give advantage to Lovecraft. There's something about the way Lovecraft hints at and evokes horror and entwines it with existing legend, while only magnifying the horror, that is singular. With many fantasy authors you end up with a diluted substitute if they alter myth. With Lovecraft, the horror is augmented, and reality is far, far worse then what our forefathers have passed on. What would you say is Lovecraft's strongest work, given that you consider Our Lady in Darkness much better?

It's been years since I've wanted to revisit Lovecraft so much of what I have to work with is vague recollection. Strongest? Hard for me to say. The stories I liked best were, "Pickman's Model", "The Haunter of the Dark", and "Call of Cthulhu". Perhaps also "Shadow over Innsmouth" but I don't remember well. "Pickman's Model" and "The Haunter..." are the Lovecraft stories that most evoked horror for me. What they do right is to show you that you are not safe where you once thought you were safe. That is a necessary ingredient of horror for me.

What "existing legends" do you refer to? I get the sense that some of Lovecraft's horror comes from the local New England flavor of remote seaside towns and backwoods life. Then it is mixed with the same puritan hysteria that led to the Salem witch trials. I greatly appreciate Lovecraft's decoupling of his horror from Judeo-Christian myth; I can only roll my eyes at horror premises that rely upon it a la "Event Horizon" and countless others. I appreciate that Lovecraft's gods are largely apathetic to humanity. On the other hand I don't find the Elder Gods in their apathy or their unavoidable return to be any more frightening than any of the actual cosmological horrors that exist: planet-killer asteroids, gamma ray bursts, black holes, the death of the sun and ultimately of the universe. Humanity is just as helpless against these as it would be against the Elder Gods.

Though Lovecraft certainly influenced many writers, having read him once to see what the original stories were about, I would now rather read those who have developed his ideas than reread him. Part of it has to do with his writing; some stories like the dream cycles were a slog for me. Partly because other authors have taken his techniques or mythos and done it better. Even his contemporary Howard's "God in the Bowl" gives me a greater sense of horrors long forgotten. Stephen King's "Salem's Lot" blends literary, world and New England legends better and is what a vampire story should be like. "Our Lady of Darkness" is somewhat like "Haunter..." with better writing and characters.

I do enjoy a good Lovecraft reference though. I once happened to see a play of "Pickman's Model" that mashed the story up with the tunnels of the old underground city in Seattle. It was badass.

 

[squeen]

I devoured Heinlein as a teenager. The Asimov robot shorts and Foundation too.

My favorite Heinlein is, without a doubt, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Brilliant.
I liked the Lazarus Long stories too.

 

[PrinceofNothing]

Shadow Over Innsmouth is one of his finest. I would add the spectacularly underrated The Mound, as well as the spectacular The Mountains of Madness and the breathtakingly imaginative The Dream-Quest For Unknown Kadath. Taken as a whole, his stories cover an area that covers vast epochs and stretches out far beyond the boundaries of the Euclidean Universe. I think only Poe might eclipse his effect on Horror and fiction as a whole.

What "existing legends" do you refer to? I get the sense that some of Lovecraft's horror comes from the local New England flavor of remote seaside towns and backwoods life. Then it is mixed with the same puritan hysteria that led to the Salem witch trials. I greatly appreciate Lovecraft's decoupling of his horror from Judeo-Christian myth; I can only roll my eyes at horror premises that rely upon it a la "Event Horizon" and countless others. I appreciate that Lovecraft's gods are largely apathetic to humanity. On the other hand I don't find the Elder Gods in their apathy or their unavoidable return to be any more frightening than any of the actual cosmological horrors that exist: planet-killer asteroids, gamma ray bursts, black holes, the death of the sun and ultimately of the universe. Humanity is just as helpless against these as it would be against the Elder Gods.

His treatment of witchcraft in the Case of Charles Dexter Ward takes a whole grab-bag of pagan/medieval superstitions and mythological treatments of witchcraft and sorcery, replacing the traditional Satan-worship with deities altogether less comprehensible. The Deep Ones hook into mermaid legend. He weaves egyptian and mesopotamian civilizations into his vast fictional history of the world and directly in his "Imprisoned with the Pharaoh's", "Medusa's Coil" does Greek myth, Ghouls are originally from Arabian fairytales, The Whisperer in Darkness is a riff on legends of the Fairfolk (or maybe fucking bigfoot), etc. etc. etc.

As for his decoupling, I think one can only really write Cosmic Horror by extending its scope into such fundamental matters as the nature of reality itself. Horror not just from nasty beasties but from the fact that the universe itself is a hostile and alien place, where we are but trespassers and our existence is on sufferance. He read the spirit of the times and put his finger on the yawning, gnawing existential horror left in the wake of Nietzsche, Hegel and their contemporaries.

As for the rest, I'd say that unless you are going to explicitly do Cosmic Horror, you probably benefit from some sort of supernatural framework for your story, if only because supernatural things are more enigmatic, capable of hurting us in ways beyond simple pain or death. The concept of Eternal Damnation or a Fate Worse Then Death is a recurring feature of many horror stories. Take Dracula, or the Arabian Nights inspired Vathek (which also deals with the Demon Eblis) or even King's The Shining. The advantage of using an existing system is that you don't have to work everything out yourself, which is a formidable task for any writer. I thought Event Horizon was pretty cool, it reminded me of Warhammer 40k or Doom (not the dogshit movie), and they treated the other dimension effectively, as a place so terrible that Hell was merely the closest analogy.

I theoretically agree with your observation that if you assume an uncaring, blind, meaningless universe then it doesn't truly matter whether you have an immortal squid monster or a supernova but an immortal squid monster hits more of our instinctual fear buttons and is therefore a more effective device then a supernova, or for that matter, a volcanic eruption.

Though Lovecraft certainly influenced many writers, having read him once to see what the original stories were about, I would now rather read those who have developed his ideas than reread him. Part of it has to do with his writing; some stories like the dream cycles were a slog for me. Partly because other authors have taken his techniques or mythos and done it better. Even his contemporary Howard's "God in the Bowl" gives me a greater sense of horrors long forgotten. Stephen King's "Salem's Lot" blends literary, world and New England legends better and is what a vampire story should be like. "Our Lady of Darkness" is somewhat like "Haunter..." with better writing and characters.

I think that's where our opinions diverge. I think some of those authors you mentioned definitely write in a way that is more immediately spine-chilling and Lovecraft was no virtuoso when it came to characters, but when I look at whose ideas stick with me longer or have a greater impact the comparison becomes much harder and he leaves many of those aforementioned ones behind. It's like Lovecraft created this vast tapestry of creatures and ideas and countless other authors can pick even a tiny fragment of that and write a whole book around that. My path is retrograde, I look for the authors that inspired Lovecraft or were contemporaries of him; C.A. Smith, William Beckford, Arthur Machen, Dunsany, R.W. Chambers , Robert Bloch etc. etc.

The Asimov robot shorts and Foundation too.

Foundation roxx, even if it lost a bit of steam at around book 4.

While I am rambling on, some new entries.

Good Luck Yukikaze! by Chohei Kambayashi - Terrible sequel to a great first book. Gone are the razor-sharp, gorgeously poetic, at times almost surreal tales of Fighter-plane combat on an alien planet against an unknowable foe. Arrived have the days of long introspective monologues, stilted dialogue and entire stories about virtually nothing, Every character asking "but WHY?" philosophical navelgazing and more philosophical navelgazing "Are we waging War with machines or are the machines waging war with us maaaaaan". Haikasoru is a great label, but this one is a boring piece of shit.

The Wood Beyond the World by William Morris - The Ulysses of fantasy fiction. Gorgeous medieval english and illuminated pages to tell a story that is almost about nothing. Perhaps forgiveable since it was one of the first. Walter of Stanford goes on a journey because his wife cheats on him and spends the bulk of his journey getting up and waiting in bushes around the House of the mysterious Lady of the Woods. Risque glances, hunting trips, and professions of undying love take up 75% of the book, leaving little room for the fantasy part of the plot. A weird Dwarfish character might be a precursor for Gollum (Tolkien was said to have been inspired by Morris), but that will not save you. Not atrocious but very, very slow and with little payoff to show for it.

American Gods by Neil Gaiman - My girlfriend picked it. Part Roadtrip, part urban fantasy epic, Gaiman delves deep into his encyclopedic knowledge of the mythology of all the cultures under the earth to gives us a spell-binding, if at times directionless tour de force. The ex-convict Shadow is embroiled in a hidden conflict between the fading Old Gods and the upcoming New Gods and travels all over America with his partner Wednesday. Various vignettes of Gods and mythological creatures coming to and living in America are almost better then the book itself, and the cast of characters and varied locations are what makes it work. A little rauchy, and the ending lacks force, but overall enjoyable.

 

[squeen]

I watched the 1st episode of American Gods...it didn't grab me. Kind of the opposite.

 

[bryce0lynch]

Look upon my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

 

[PrinceofNothing]

Is that...an entire shelf full of Harlequin Romance novels with James Joyce novels comically interspersed so as to suggest an underlying kinship in terms of general literary quality? If only Kent were here to see this

 

[bryce0lynch]

It is. Floor to ceiling.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

"Oh shit, better stick some serious books in here or I'm going to look like a total weirdo" - Bryce, moments before posting