My "Megadungeon"

[The1True]

That's a LOT of writing! But I'll be quite interested to see how all of this develops. Fingers crossed for you.

Thanks I guess? I got completely sidetracked by the Vanished Wastes project which was briefly, gloriously collaborative and productive but has turned into a bit of a white elephant (though it looks like it might actually bear fruit sooner rather than later ).

 

[The1True]

You have a dungeon here

I don't though. I have world maps and settlement maps. I have a procedural city and sewer crawl, but actual, meaningful, fleshed out dungeons and locations? Dungeons that aren't random, senseless hack-fests are HARD bro. Much respect to all the well-thought-out scenarios out there; even the mediocre efforts. Stocking even a limited adventure area like this one with mapped and meaningful, original content is...daunting.

 

[squeen]

Sometimes, once you know the purpose of the place---however humble it may be---in the surrounding world, I am sometimes surprised how a dozen or two very logical rooms will spring into existence from the practical necessities of said purpose. Perhaps free yourself to allow more emptiness, and think of it as pacing. To be pedantic, a surprise attack is not a surprise if one occurs in every room. However, those "empty" places do create ambiance.

 

[The1True]

Sometimes, once you know the purpose of the place

Yeah, that's been happening pretty organically with the Wastes adventures. There's a seed for each adventure area, and they've been pretty much writing themselves each time I sat down to develop one of those seeds. As we've found out and discussed, I hate finishing shit. It's happening though!

 

[Osrnoob]

I think it's telling @grodog reacted above. If anyone knows how some of the greats ran dungeons it's him.

Often they were not completely flashed out! And in the words of Gabor getting caught up in complete keys hampers the "spark of invention" that makes DND great. Creation through play!

 

[The1True]

It's been bewildering to me for a while, watching people try to reconstruct the epic dungeons of the ancient elders, or even trying to translate their own megadungeons for a wider audience. Like, it's a finished product, how hard could it be, right?
Going from my own travails, I would say it's because even for great DM's, 30% of their megadungeon is derivative or outright robbed and needs to be rewritten; 20% is silly in-jokes, goofy shit, or personal campaign-specific material that would be stupid/useless/offensive to people outside your group and needs to be rewritten; 40% is insane ramblings in notebooks that you just winged the rules for and the players went along with it (because FUN) and now you have no idea what those notes referred to, or are realizing the made-up rules would absolutely nuke a campaign in the hands of players less understanding than your own aaand you have to rewrite it; and a final 10% of stuff you ad-libbed at the table and never noted down and no one remembers exactly how it happened, but there's a totally unconnected map with some apocryphal symbols on it and you think maybe a Gate was involved? I dunno. Reeeeewrite it (it will never quite be the same or as awesome though).

 

[squeen]

There are some error bars on those percentages, but you are right on target in the observations about what makes it hard to publish home-brewed content.

I think that's why we never saw Gygax's Greyhawk.

 

[Malrex]

It's been bewildering to me for a while, watching people try to reconstruct the epic dungeons of the ancient elders, or even trying to translate their own megadungeons for a wider audience. Like, it's a finished product, how hard could it be, right?
Going from my own travails, I would say it's because even for great DM's, 30% of their megadungeon is derivative or outright robbed and needs to be rewritten; 20% is silly in-jokes, goofy shit, or personal campaign-specific material that would be stupid/useless/offensive to people outside your group and needs to be rewritten; 40% is insane ramblings in notebooks that you just winged the rules for and the players went along with it (because FUN) and now you have no idea what those notes referred to, or are realizing the made-up rules would absolutely nuke a campaign in the hands of players less understanding than your own aaand you have to rewrite it; and a final 10% of stuff you ad-libbed at the table and never noted down and no one remembers exactly how it happened, but there's a totally unconnected map with some apocryphal symbols on it and you think maybe a Gate was involved? I dunno. Reeeeewrite it (it will never quite be the same or as awesome though).

This made me chuckle.

 

[Osrnoob]

But it's true right?!

The work in progress dungeon plus notes PLUS playtesting made these dungeons what they are

You have something here don't deny yourself the glue

It's delicious

 

[The1True]

mmm delicious glue... (?)

 

[Malrex]

But it's true right?!

The work in progress dungeon plus notes PLUS playtesting made these dungeons what they are

You have something here don't deny yourself the glue

It's delicious

ya...I think for me it's:
10% ripped off material--I stopped buying materials for the most part so I don't steal off people--which I wonder if that hurts me as I dont get inspiration from others either. Chainsaw wrote a dungeon, Lake of Fire I think, and I bought that and was floored because I had written similar ideas for part of Vermilion before seeing his work, so I think some of it happens on a unconscious level--inspirations from past movies/books that you may of mostly forgotten about. There are some other parts during playtesting of Vermilion where my players were like, oh, that's similar to so and so movie...and I was like what?!
5% silly in-jokes. This happens usually during play, but not written in.
60% insane ramblings/brainstorming. I write down the stupidest ideas...some are moldable into something cool.
25% ad lib--which may go hand in hand with insane ramblings as there may only be one word written down. Total headscratchers. Ill go back and remember the room on the map and what happened, but not sure how or why it made sense that the scenario shook down as it did.

 

[squeen]

Chainsaw wrote a dungeon, Lake of Fire I think...

Where can that be found? I'd love to see it.

 

[Howard Andrew Jones]

Been digging through a lot of old posts, some of which I remember reading a few years back when I was first hanging out here. Lots of fascinating things in THIS thread, and a hexcrawling thread.

It all has me thinking once more about a kind of SUPER Isles of Dread. I've long been attracted to Dread but have never run it since it seems a little directionless and, in some ways, staid. I've been accumulating all sorts of Dread-like stuff and tropical ruins adventures for years, and every now and then I think about taking all the best elements from the various supplements and modules and hexcrawls and just smushing them all together, along with a bunch of stuff I know me and my principal player would groove on and making a kind of super Island of Dread style hexcrawl.

I keep hesitating to start because A. it's a lot of work, as you megadungeon builders have made clear and B. because most of it isn't mine and therefore I won't be able to do anything with it after I set it up to play in, but maybe that's a silly impediment. So, Plague Island, and Island of Forgotten Gods and Cauldron and the OAR Dread and various issues of NOD, not to mention Jungle Ruins of Mantaro Shanti (or whatever it's called) and Monster Island and etc. I am looking once more at you and your brethren and getting ready for some cutting and pasting and mapping and typing and thinking. Good thing I have copious spare time. Oh, wait... Sure seems like it could be a lot of fun, though, if I find time...

 

[squeen]

I always recommend writing your own material as opposed to stitching together pre-made products, just because that's far more rewarding and not that much more work. Pre-mades come in handy when you are pressed for time, but if this is a long-term project, why not go whole hog?

 

[Beoric]

I think X1 just needs to have things added to it so it has more going on. It would be a good home for I1 (Dwellers in the Forbidden City) and C1 (Tamoachan), both of which are close to the right level range.

 

[Howard Andrew Jones]

I always recommend writing your own material as opposed to stitching together pre-made products, just because that's far more rewarding and not that much more work. Pre-mades come in handy when you are pressed for time, but if this is a long-term project, why not go whole hog?

Well, the trick is that since the day job is coming up with stories and writing them it means that I am consequently ALWAYS thinking of stories and ideas even during my off time. If I switch gears and begin to plan out an RPG setting and hexes in detail it means less of the brain time is devoted to the day job.

I used to develop all my game settings and adventures myself -- for years and years -- but I finally admitted to myself I was robbing Peter to pay Paul and have since shifted to running some of the wonderful RPG products that Ten Foot Pole and a few other sites lead me to. Seems like we have a golden age of new stuff not to mention tons of good ideas from the OSR about how to invigorate some good old stuff as well, so that's where I put my time. Maybe someday I can pour some energy into the badass sword-and-sorcery style hexcrawl I dream of making, but I just KNOW I'd be sitting here during the day dreaming up ideas for that rather than drafting or revising the next book. And much as my dream girl digs playing adventure games, she also needs me to earn golden smerduks...

 

[Howard Andrew Jones]

I think X1 just needs to have things added to it so it has more going on. It would be a good home for I1 (Dwellers in the Forbidden City) and C1 (Tamoachan), both of which are close to the right level range.

Yeah, I was poking through my copies of those just last night. I was wishing there were some OAR volumes on those, but, alas, that seems unlikely to happen now. I do have the OAR Dread and Lost City, though (as well as Amber-- I'm not made of money, I've done a lot of work for Goodman over the years and he's kindly gifted me with a lot of cool DCC and Goodman Games products) and I rather like most of the additions.

 

[Beoric]

Yeah, I was poking through my copies of those just last night. I was wishing there were some OAR volumes on those, but, alas, that seems unlikely to happen now. I do have the OAR Dread and Lost City, though (as well as Amber-- I'm not made of money, I've done a lot of work for Goodman over the years and he's kindly gifted me with a lot of cool DCC and Goodman Games products) and I rather like most of the additions.

If you are just looking for 5e conversions, there are these:

Classic Modules Today: C1 The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan (5e) - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild (dmsguild.com)
Classic Modules Today: I1 Dwellers of the Forbidden City 5e - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild (dmsguild.com)

To be clear, I haven't run them, or tried to do any assessment as to how well they work as conversions. But they are way more affordable than the OAR series.

 

[Beoric]

Well, the trick is that since the day job is coming up with stories and writing them it means that I am consequently ALWAYS thinking of stories and ideas even during my off time. If I switch gears and begin to plan out an RPG setting and hexes in detail it means less of the brain time is devoted to the day job.

I used to develop all my game settings and adventures myself -- for years and years -- but I finally admitted to myself I was robbing Peter to pay Paul and have since shifted to running some of the wonderful RPG products that Ten Foot Pole and a few other sites lead me to. Seems like we have a golden age of new stuff not to mention tons of good ideas from the OSR about how to invigorate some good old stuff as well, so that's where I put my time. Maybe someday I can pour some energy into the badass sword-and-sorcery style hexcrawl I dream of making, but I just KNOW I'd be sitting here during the day dreaming up ideas for that rather than drafting or revising the next book. And much as my dream girl digs playing adventure games, she also needs me to earn golden smerduks...

Also, creating is an iterative process, and often builds on the work of others. How many of Shakespeare's plays were original stories?

 

[Howard Andrew Jones]

If you are just looking for 5e conversions, there are these:

Classic Modules Today: C1 The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan (5e) - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild (dmsguild.com)
Classic Modules Today: I1 Dwellers of the Forbidden City 5e - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild (dmsguild.com)

To be clear, I haven't run them, or tried to do any assessment as to how well they work as conversions. But they are way more affordable than the OAR series.

Thanks! I don't actually groove on 5E, I just liked a lot of the expansion material that was added to those OAR volumes. As a matter of fact, I usualllly stumble over some of the 5E terminology if I have to convert it at the table. DC checks, etc.