Poisons

[Malrex]

Thought I would try to get a discussion going.

I've been playtesting Vermilion and the way the party has been going and the choices they made, I had to add an extra 'dungeon'. It's an embassy as a front...and really an assassin's guild. They don't know they are entering an assassin's guild as they want to break-in for a different agenda, so should be kind of amusing. I figured the guildmembers would be playing with all sorts of poison and so will be using different varieties against the party.

So it makes sense that the party will be obtaining various poisons as loot and this scruffy bunch-- I'm sure will be using it with glee. At first, I was a bit hesitant as poisons can really give characters an advantage--but I threw that out the window immediately as it's a temporary boost and sometimes the PCs deserve to use what they find! However, I've been meaning to read the 1e DMG some more about poisons and whatnot, but work has been crazy (again) so thought I would ask some questions here for fun since I seem to not leave my desk lately and game night is tonight!.

1. From what I remember, using poison is a big deal, and in fact, some classes were not allowed to use it. I'd like to see some roleplay come out of this within the group (although I think the lawful monk may be dead by next session), but how have the rest of you handled the use of poison among party members? do you just hand wave its use? do you remind paladins and rangers (I dont have any in my group, but curious) that they would probably be disappointed in others using it?
2. are people arrested immediately if known they use it? How easy is it noticed?
3. What are some drawbacks of poison? Do you have a % chance they may poison themselves when applying it without proper training, or is it just a simple dunk the blade in the jar (this is probably in the book....)?
4. How fast does poison leave the blade? I have one poison--Maddie's Revenge that does 4d6 damage first hit, 2d6 damage the second hit, and 1d6 the third hit before being gone, but what about regular poisons? Multiple hits or just one hit?

I've tried to come up with some poison varieties but had to throw this together pretty quickly so plan to revisit and upgrade. I got the typical wyvern poison, spider poison, purple worm poison, paralyzing poison, damaging poison, gas poison and one that make someone go unconscious...but do you have any favorite poisons? I think damaging poisons is kinda boring so was trying to think of something more clever.

Also...I got the place mapped with really rough notes, but I have never seen an assassin guild as a 'dungeon' (or a thief's guild, but made two of those already). I've made it a little fantastic since its also an embassy from a far off land of deserts, so want them to get a little taste of that culture, but also put in what I felt should be found in an assassins guild (rooms with wardrobes for disguises/makeup, alchemy lab mainly for poisons, meeting rooms with silencing effects to keep meetings private, some training rooms for thief activities, torture/questioning rooms, scroll room depicting past jobs, messenger birds ripoff from John Wick, and bunks to hole up in, etc). What else would you expect to find in an assassin's guild?

 

[Alexander Moonbeam]

1. From what I remember, using poison is a big deal, and in fact, some classes were not allowed to use it. I'd like to see some roleplay come out of this within the group (although I think the lawful monk may be dead by next session), but how have the rest of you handled the use of poison among party members? do you just hand wave its use? do you remind paladins and rangers (I dont have any in my group, but curious) that they would probably be disappointed in others using it?

Paladins and nonevil clerics are forbidden from using poisons. For everyone else, it depends on alignment. I'd rule that Lawful characters generally will shun poison.

See Players Handbook page 19.

2. are people arrested immediately if known they use it? How easy is it noticed?

Poisoning people is surely illegal in any civilized culture. There are specific rules for getting caught with a poisoned weapon on page 29 of the Players Handbook. In my opinion, however, that part of the rules is unfair to the PC's; the implications is that NPC's can easily recognize poison, which seems implausible.

3. What are some drawbacks of poison? Do you have a % chance they may poison themselves when applying it without proper training, or is it just a simple dunk the blade in the jar (this is probably in the book....)?

I don't think there's a rule for this kind of thing, but you could always make one.

4. How fast does poison leave the blade? I have one poison--Maddie's Revenge that does 4d6 damage first hit, 2d6 damage the second hit, and 1d6 the third hit before being gone, but what about regular poisons? Multiple hits or just one hit?

The way I've always run it, poison leaves the blade immediately and all at once. The target gets a save vs. poison.

Letting the poison last for multiple attacks makes sense, though.

 

[Two orcs]

ACKS has a list of poisons with onset time, effect, cost (based on Poison potion cost which is basically "perfect poison") and rules for blades/projectiles. Drawback is on natural 1 when you attack you've nicked yourself handling the weapon and been exposed. Also herbal poisons to put in food or drink which you might gather in nature rather than extract from monsters.

 

[Two orcs]

Poison is almost always better applied to missiles, one dose is enough for a blade or 20 arrows.

 

[Beoric]

I think damaging poisons is kinda boring so was trying to think of something more clever.

Some of these might actually be drugs, except that they might be delivered by contact or stabbing:

• Poison that makes the target susceptible to suggestion
• Poison that acts like a feeblemind
• Poison that weakens the target
• Poison that makes the target clumsy
• Poison that instantly intoxicates the target
• Poison that makes the target see an illusion (as suggested by the user), or believe the user is someone other than they are
• Poisons that mimic various spell effects
• Posions that are powerful or very useful but difficult to use (eg. strong taste needs to be masked by citrus flavours; is applied to weapon but is very obvious thick magenta goop; needs to be delivered as eye drops; delivered as airborne powder that has a high probability of being blown back on the user or covering the whole area; only works if delivered in direct sunlight, etc.)

I would also think about drugs that might be useful, specifically drugs that improve fighting or spellcasting or thievery or have divination properties, but carry a risk of addiction, do damage or have other unfortunate side effects. There are some mechanics you might want to adapt from 3e for addiction.

Also certain potions might be useful for assassins to use on others, like philters of love or persuasiveness, or potions of human control.

Not a poison, but since you are using assassins I think a really cool treasure would be a dossier of people who are on the take or being blackmailed, or at least are susceptible to being blackmailed. You could even use it as a hook, if the evidence is kept in one or more other locations, and the party needs to find it to make use of the dossier, or bluff or find their own evidence now that they know who the victims are and what they have supposedly done.

EDIT: Like knowing who the king's mistress is, and who her lover is, and what he is addicted to. Or the captain of the guard's gambling habit. Or the chancellor's preferred kink.

 

[squeen]

Been on the whipping post with work recently. Sorry I missed the response window.

 

[Malrex]

Not a poison, but since you are using assassins I think a really cool treasure would be a dossier of people who are on the take or being blackmailed, or at least are susceptible to being blackmailed. You could even use it as a hook, if the evidence is kept in one or more other locations, and the party needs to find it to make use of the dossier, or bluff or find their own evidence now that they know who the victims are and what they have supposedly done.

EDIT: Like knowing who the king's mistress is, and who her lover is, and what he is addicted to. Or the captain of the guard's gambling habit. Or the chancellor's preferred kink.

Ooh...I like that. Ya, I have a room with scrolls of past jobs, but this is a great treasure idea!

I thought I recognized you at the whipping post......what is up with the work world lately--its been insane. And the window for responding isn't closed. Players got distracted, got in a big fight, etc. etc....maybe they will try to go back and find the entrance, but everytime they go back to the city to rest, I throw 4-8 new hooks at them for different adventures.

 

[Beoric]

Not a poison, but since you are using assassins I think a really cool treasure would be a dossier of people who are on the take or being blackmailed, or at least are susceptible to being blackmailed. You could even use it as a hook, if the evidence is kept in one or more other locations, and the party needs to find it to make use of the dossier, or bluff or find their own evidence now that they know who the victims are and what they have supposedly done.

EDIT: Like knowing who the king's mistress is, and who her lover is, and what he is addicted to. Or the captain of the guard's gambling habit. Or the chancellor's preferred kink.

Ooh, or you could do the reverse. All the entries are coded, but you have an idea what the blackmail victims are doing, so the party can go catch them in the act, where the ID of the victim would be revealed, leading to other possibilities, and possibly hints about the identify of others. I bet you could build a good chunk of a campaign around that.