Book Fucking Talk

[Beoric]

You found all those newspaper clippings on your own that fast? Or was it curated by a modern partisan?

Dude, I posted the source, look for yourself. And what is partisan about disagreeing with "Kidz these days is lazy" unsupported by any evidence? Or is "cranky old fart" now a political party?

This has come up a bunch of times at work --- and you'll find that the only "experts" who get upset when you question their authority are quacks. Like Einstein is reported to have said: "If you can't explain it to your Grandmother, then you don't really understand it." I've actually said to other engineers at work who claimed "it's complicated...", and it usually ends the condescension.

Truly knowledgeable people enjoy educating others, no matter how small the baby steps or wild the analogies they have to take them through. Feynman was a great example of this. Smart people don't hide behind the mantle of their education or position. Only the frauds.

What do any of these true statements have to do with your expertise on current trends in employment derived from a conversation with two people and your lived experience? Sorry, I'm having trouble taking seriously as a crisis, "Kids these days is lazier than kids back in my day. <spitz>" I mean, first of all, I don't buy it, on account of my own "lived experience" and, well, other stuff. Secondly, I think we have bigger fish to fry.

Sadly, in my inexpert opinion, the world is not breaking down, the world is returning to its normal state. It is the last 80 years of relative peace that are unusual. We are in for a rough patch, though, since globally electorates seem to be in the habit of electing profoundly unserious leaders. No doubt brought on by three generations of Westerners with no real exposure to crisis or hardship.

So instead of focussing on issues that affect medium term geopolitical stability, public health and the continued existence of democracy, we whine about kids who, finding themselves laid off for 2 years during a pandemic, decided to get better jobs and maybe an education instead of waiting about for their shitty minimum wage jobs to come back. And we call those people "lazy". The immigrants who would normally take those shit jobs but weren't able to enter the country? Also lazy, apparently.

Truth be told, labour markets are driven by market forces, and the unskilled minimum wage labour pool isn't so much lazy as it is smaller. Smaller because many of its participants were shaken out of complacency by being pushed out of not only their jobs, but their industries. Smaller because immigrants who typically take those shit jobs were not able to immigrate during the pandemic. Smaller because Gen Z is simply a smaller cohort than the Millenials, so there are less of them to fill those positions. Smaller because it has been widely publicized for the last 2 years just how shitty those minimum wage jobs are, so people are making other arrangements. Smaller because prices have gone up, and wages haven't, and after clothing/training/child care/transportation some jobs cost more than they pay.

But I'm no expert, maybe it is just lazy kids. And not lazy armchair sociologists.

 

[squeen]

Or is "cranky old fart" now a political party?

If it is...then I'm in! Sorry I missed the link at the bottom.


<rant>
OP was --- got to keep the trains running on time (and they aren't). Perhaps there are demographic problems, but I am telling you conversations with young employers I had in the last two months that surprised me with their bluntness.

Couple that with the fact that when my American Airlines flight was cancelled TWO HOURS before take off because they "had no crew"

1. some fuckwit who is planning these things clearly wasn't --- two hours advanced notice!?!? Really? You never saw it coming, huh? It would take some kind of scheduling genius you are justifiably lacking, eh? Maybe, if you got off your phone. Just saying...
2. the WAIT TIME to talk with a human operator to reschedule the flight (required, web was broken as per usual) was 2-3 hours. Never in all of its company history has American Airlines had such crappy customer service. NEVER. 2-3 hours!! A few months ago, I tried cancelling a flight---the wait time to speak with someone was 5 hours!! This is the new norm? Then it's total shit.

That's the falling apart of society I'm talking about. I never said the "kids are lazy" --- you just heard that because you're an age-ist bastard.

Oh, and fuck corporate culture and it's new-found robot slaves. I wish there was a law, like the Americans with Disabilities Act, that says businesses can never require a person to interact with a computer to complete a transaction. Accommodations for human-to-human interaction and/or pen and paper must be made in all things, or you can get your corporate pants sued off of you. This "2010+ = businesses discover the power to the web to waste your life without costing them a penny" has got to go. Psychological Torture.

I seriously hope Gen Z comes flying in with a cape to save the day. Milenials certainly dropped the ball---but then look at what a bunch of self-centered mess their boomer parents were, whatcha honestly expect? Statistically speaking, of course.
</rant>


@The Heretic : You are no heretic. That's the party line you're spewing.

Lastly the message with respect to "experts" is a radical one and yet an old one: Think for yourself. Question authority. (Duh.)

 

[The1True]

This is getting a little heated guys. Also political, which is going to get all our asses censured.

Sure is interesting though! My first reaction is if you want people to work your shit jobs, how bout you pay them a living wage? Now my neo-liberal news source is telling me that's going to cause run-away inflation as people with more money create more demand. Frankly, I don't see how the small raises the Trades and Services desperately need will match the escalating cost of food and shelter much less create greater consumer demand, but the Covid handouts distinctly did lead to a great deal of frivolous spending so...

These aren't the end-times, I believe in humanity, but we're definitely headed for an exciting 'adjustment'. I'm just afraid I'm going to be posted somewhere truly fucked up when the time comes.

 

[The Heretic]

@The Heretic : You are no heretic. That's the party line you're spewing.

Lastly the message with respect to "experts" is a radical one and yet an old one: Think for yourself. Question authority. (Duh.)

Which "party line" do you speak of? I am a heretic because I heretically play Pathfinder. Heresy depends on one's point of view.

A friend of mine who was going to a 'con*' for another friend of mine had the same experience you did. Flight cancelled at the last moment. She's heartbroken. The airlines are liars. Can we try high speed rail please? I'd give it a try.


* Just a big party, really

 

[The Heretic]

This is getting a little heated guys. Also political, which is going to get all our asses censured.

She can't feel the heat, coming of the street.
She wants to party (woo!)
She wants to get down (woo!)
All she wants to do is dance!

 

[The1True]

Can we try high speed rail please?

Fucking German high speed rail (ICE) is amazing! You need serious population density to make it pay for itself though. So much more civilized than getting crammed into a low-budget domestic carrier with flipflop-wearing clods.

 

[The Heretic]

Fucking German high speed rail (ICE) is amazing! You need serious population density to make it pay for itself though. So much more civilized than getting crammed into a low-budget domestic carrier with flipflop-wearing clods.

If North Americans would plan their mass transit better, they'd probably do a better job with it. I've been watching the Not Just Bikes channel on Youtube and he makes good arguments as to why North American city planning is a disaster. He has nothing but nice things to say about the Netherlands. Whodhaveknown?!?

 

[The1True]

I was reading "Afterlift" by Jason Loo and Chip Zdarsky the other night, and this shit made me laugh out loud. You get it all in two pages; no context needed. Who hasn't been there with their players amirite

 

[Beoric]

"I go up to the 14th level druid, and I poke him!"

 

[The1True]

It's that extra kick there. Was that really necessary? Even one of the demons is like "dude"...

 

[The1True]

The rest of the book was fine btw. Nothing to write home about I guess. Some interesting world-building and ruminations on life and death. Kind of pooped out in the last chapter like it was rushed at the end or they had to cut it short.

 

[The1True]

"I go up to the 14th level druid, and I poke him!"

I have been looking all over for this!:

 

[Hemlock]

Its more or less the author's actual play narrative (GURPS, I understand), as written by someone who can actually write. I enjoyed the series quite a bit.
Oddly enough, even though the overarching plot is what you would expect from a sandbox campaign (ie. essentially none), and each book focusses on different characters, I doubt it would make much sense unless you started from the beginning.

I started with Book Three, Memories of Ice, then read Book Two. I assumed that reading Book One would answer all the questions I had about what had gone before, which I shrugged off due to starting in the middle.

It did not. Book One still felt like Book Eleven in some other series. I think it's just a writing style thing, essentially since Erikson is an archeologist by profession IIRC.

Memories of Ice is still my favorite and I would recommend starting there, since (1) it has a great story, (2) its prologue goes back 300,000 years and works as a prologue for the whole series.

(Note that the books often contradict themselves w/rt What Has Gone Before, so don't be surprised if another book like Forge of Darkness gives an incompatible version of prehistory. For me that just means I don't read Forge of Darkness but YMMV. As Beoric says, the healthiest way to view the novels is as somebody's Actual Play narrative; backstories change to whatever best supports the current adventure. Nevertheless some of the books are great fun, especially Memories of Ice. )

 

[Beoric]

As Beoric says, the healthiest way to view the novels is as somebody's Actual Play narrative; backstories change to whatever best supports the current adventure. Nevertheless some of the books are great fun, especially Memories of Ice. )

To be clear, my understanding is that it is actually someone's actual play narrative, taken from their GURPS game.

 

[Hemlock]

To be clear, my understanding is that it is actually someone's actual play narrative, taken from their GURPS game.

I know that the world is based on a GURPS campaign world shared with Ian Cameron Esslemont, and that characters originated by one feature prominently in novels written by the other. I do not know to what extent the plotlines of the novels derive from Actual Play sessions. (To some extent it would surprise me if they were, because isn't retelling old stories you thought up long ago more boring than telling new stories you thought up today?) However, even if they don't, it feels like they do.

I could never before articulate why the Malazan books felt unusual to me, but in hindsight I would say for example that novels should obey Niven's Law #4 For Writers ("It is a sin to waste the reader's time") and trim before publication any Chekhov's Gun that fails to fire. Roleplaying games should do the exact opposite: at the end of a good adventure, there should be a plethora of interesting affordances which could have been taken/explored/used but weren't, and each of them is a Chekhov's Gun. Games and novels are not the same medium.

The Malazan books feel like a game. Significant and powerful characters appear out of nowhere halfway through a series, form parties/alliances with other powerful new characters because reasons, do stuff, die when you didn't expect it, come back to life sometimes, and take arbitrary "quests" upon themselves which may or may not ever be fulfilled. (Quick Ben deciding to oppose the Crippled God on the basis of meeting the Crippled God in a dream and not getting along with him feels very much like an Actual Play event, for example.)

 

[PrinceofNothing]

I probably should post at some point.

The Devil is Dead by R.A. Lafferty is, what would today be termed Urban Fantasy, but can comfortably be put in the same ballpark as Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury or There Are Doors by Gene Wolfe (which I am coincidentally reading to my girlfriend). A thrilling, humorous, bizarre yarn told unreliably by an alcoholic amnesiac who goes on a voyage with a millionaire, a mermaid, an ogress and The Devil, who he ends up killing, twice. It is easy to see why Gene Wolfe cites Lafferty as a major influence. The ambiguity, the subtle tale, the obscured meanings that give way to rampant speculation, this is all beautiful stuff. A fantastical tale, with the dialogue of a farce, and the format of a spy novel. I miss good books

I have a few Malazans on my shelf but something prevents me from taking them down and reading them. Is it the last unspoilt volume of E.R.R. Eddisons trilogy? Should I consider continuing my read of Glen Cook's Black Company instead? Or do my eyes grow weary and can I no longer keep up with the page count? There is something interesting about reading someone's actual play reports turned novel because the normal beats and forms of storytelling that I believe to be instinctual for good writers are avoided. The story must live and die by its own concepts and the railroading hand of the dungeon master.

Evenor by George McDonald now. A collection. It reads well.

 

[The1True]

For the comic nerds among us (I know I'm not alone...), this may be of some interest:

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PREVIEWSworld | Comic Book, Graphic Novel and Pop-Culture Merchandise News, Previews, Release Dates and More

www.previewsworld.com

Retro cover (air guitar!)

 

[Hemlock]

For the comic nerds among us (I know I'm not alone...), this may be of some interest:

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PREVIEWSworld | Comic Book, Graphic Novel and Pop-Culture Merchandise News, Previews, Release Dates and More

www.previewsworld.com

Retro cover (air guitar!)

"Saving rolls" instead of "throws"? That's old school terminology indeed. Old enough that I wouldn't even get the joke if I hadn't read The Elusive Shift.

 

[Hemlock]

While we're on the subject of books that feel like Actual Plays... as I was rewatching Army of Darkness and marveling at Ash's jerk-osity and recklessness ("Klaatu... barada... Nnnn[cough cough]!") it occurred to me that the movie had the structure of many a D&D session gone wrong: hook, introduce NPCs, fight, gain trust, fight, get quest, go shopping, get to dungeon, run away, recover, deal with trapped mirror, fight, find MacGuffin... mess up climax because of not paying attention earlier, create problems bad enough that NPCs wish they'd never asked you to do anything in the first place.

Ash is basically a murderhobo with a lenient DM. I must remember to steal the "nobody said anything about three MacGuffins!" gimmick sometime.

 

[Osrnoob]

Bryce mentioned in an old review a sci Fi series that is unlikely to be finished or is on hiatus and he loves it

Maybe giant bugs? Not sure

Anyone know the name or remember that review

Side note, being older and re reading Dune Messiah for the first time

Subverting pauls heros journey does not make me irrationally upset anymore!