Book Fucking Talk

[Beoric]

I'm not so sure about that part. Pathfinder is a recent acquisition, and the protection isn't a 100% guarantee even against a mere Morganti weapon let alone a Great Weapon.

But Aliera probably would claim to find soul destruction as ho-hum as regular death if not more so.

“And otherwise we’ll be killed, I assume,” said Aliera, as if she were being threatened with not being allowed to dinner.​

...

Cawti took my hand, and a little later I said, “Okay, start over, all right? I was distracted by sheer terror.”​

​

Aliera sniffed; she was of the school that figured bravery meant never being scared, or at least never admitting it. Morrolan, who was a little saner, seemed to understand, and the Necromancer, of course, had no idea what there had been to be afraid of.​

What great characters.

Yeah, its almost like a play for dialogue.

On reflection, I don't know what a narrative from Aliera's perspective would look like. She is so driven by insecurity, she would be the most unreliable of narrators. I was reminded of this by your quote about her not admitting to be scared; but also the fact that she used to wear too-long dresses and levitate everywhere so people wouldn't know she was short. I wonder if Brust will ever do anything with that. Do I remember correctly that she was at ground zero when the lesser sea of chaos was created? I wonder if she has PTSD from that.

BTW, I have this theory that Vlad was Mario, and the whole love story that Paarfi concocted was more the recognition of their past connection.

 

[Hemlock]

Yeah, its almost like a play for dialogue.

On reflection, I don't know what a narrative from Aliera's perspective would look like. She is so driven by insecurity, she would be the most unreliable of narrators. I was reminded of this by your quote about her not admitting to be scared; but also the fact that she used to wear too-long dresses and levitate everywhere so people wouldn't know she was short. I wonder if Brust will ever do anything with that. Do I remember correctly that she was at ground zero when the lesser sea of chaos was created? I wonder if she has PTSD from that.

BTW, I have this theory that Vlad was Mario, and the whole love story that Paarfi concocted was more the recognition of their past connection.

We had a few pages of narrative from Aliera's perspective in Tiassa, and BTW Mario's involvement in the events of Dzur seem like pretty good evidence that Paarfi didn't fabricate Aliera's link to Mario.

 

[Howard Andrew Jones]

Good point! That was pretty cool.

I would like to hear some of your other examples if you don't mind, just to refresh my memory and my fondness for the character.

Edit: oh! I like how he spares Benedict despite fearing him.

Before Corwin even has his memory back he spares Julian. He feels badly that he has to keep leaving Bill in the dark about what's REALLY going on. By the end Corwin admits to himself that he and Eric were more alike than not and, if memory serves, speculates that they might even have become friends.

I'd go downstairs and look more of this stuff up but I have been absolutely flattened with food poisoning. At least today I'm able to sit upright without shivering...

 

[Beoric]

We had a few pages of narrative from Aliera's perspective in Tiassa, and BTW Mario's involvement in the events of Dzur seem like pretty good evidence that Paarfi didn't fabricate Aliera's link to Mario.

I forgot about Dzur; really need to re-read the series.

I don't think Paarfi fabricated the existence of a relationship with Mario, I think he may have fabricated the character of the relationship.

 

[Hemlock]

I forgot about Dzur; really need to re-read the series.

I don't think Paarfi fabricated the existence of a relationship with Mario, I think he may have fabricated the character of the relationship.

Well I mean, earlier you were suggesting that Mario is really Vlad, but in Dzur Mario helps Vlad out as a favor IIRC to Aliera, by performing an assassination that Vlad considers impossibly difficult. So they can't be the same person.

And Vlad has heard the rumors about Mario and Aliera:

He nodded. “There are rumors that you’ve acquired a rather formidable means of defending yourself.”​

​

I felt the length of Lady Teldra hanging from my left hip, just in front of my rapier. I didn’t touch her, though I wanted to. “No,” I said. “They aren’t rumors. You were flat-out told, and from a reliable source.”​

​

“Well, that too.”​

​

Which, I figured, was as close as I was ever going to get to confirming the stories I’d heard—that the most famous assassin in the history of the Dragaeran Empire was the lover of Aliera e’Kieron, second in line as Dragon Heir, and head of the most prestigious line of the House of the Dragon. It was amusing. Or something.​

So Vlad at least believes it's a romantic relationship. And he figured out Greater Orca Spoiler...

 

[Beoric]

Well I mean, earlier you were suggesting that Mario is really Vlad, but in Dzur Mario helps Vlad out as a favor IIRC to Aliera, by performing an assassination that Vlad considers impossibly difficult. So they can't be the same person.

And Vlad has heard the rumors about Mario and Aliera:

He nodded. “There are rumors that you’ve acquired a rather formidable means of defending yourself.”​

​

I felt the length of Lady Teldra hanging from my left hip, just in front of my rapier. I didn’t touch her, though I wanted to. “No,” I said. “They aren’t rumors. You were flat-out told, and from a reliable source.”​

​

“Well, that too.”​

​

Which, I figured, was as close as I was ever going to get to confirming the stories I’d heard—that the most famous assassin in the history of the Dragaeran Empire was the lover of Aliera e’Kieron, second in line as Dragon Heir, and head of the most prestigious line of the House of the Dragon. It was amusing. Or something.​

So Vlad at least believes it's a romantic relationship. And he figured out Greater Orca Spoiler...

I meant that I had forgotten Dzur had put a serious dent in my pet theory. That and Brust is on record as saying he won't do any more one-character-is-also-another-character reveals. But that was a while ago.

It' still not entirely out of the question, since Mario's accelerated age, and Godslayer being talked about before it was created, suggest possible time-travel shenanigans. Plus, Pathfinder and Godslayer are linked, Aliera and Mario are allegedly linked, and Aliera and Vlad are linked. But I agree it's unlikely.

Vlad has mentioned reading Paarfi, as I expect a lot of people had, so that could be the source of the "stories". Mario and Aliera being close doesn't mean they are lovers. And Mario doesn't actually say that Aliera was the source.

 

[grodog]

re: Herbert and characterization, I disagree that he doesn’t produce characters with sufficient depth you could care about them; my take is that he actively subverts our desire to like them in the traditional “protagonist as hero” way, since he sees Paul (and later Leto) as the extraordinarily dangerous creatures that he’s exactly trying to warn us as readers against.

However, all that said, I don’t read Herbert for his characterization, I read him for deep and evocative world-building; from my old post at https://web.archive.org/web/20200930033052/http://multiverse.world/blog/2017/04/26/grodogs-7-best/

Frank Herbert – Frank Herbert is of course best known for Dune and the many worlds of its Imperium. If Herbert had never written another word, Dune would firmly set him in my list. Fortunately, however, Arrakis is not the only noteworthy world Herbert created. In Destination: Void he created Ship and its environs (a messianic cross between The Computer from the Paranoia RPG and James Ward’s Metamorphosis Alpha RPG/Brian Aldiss’ novel Starship), and built that universe out in The Jesus Incident (and its sequels, written with the poet Bill Ransom) and its deadly planet Pandora. He also created the ConSentiency universe of secret agent Jorj X. McKie via the stories “A Matter of Traces” and “The Tactful Saboteur,” and his further adventures in the novels Whipping Star and The Dosadi Experiment. If you’ve never branched out beyond Dune, Herbert’s other worlds and characters offer the same well-crafted literary themes spanning unique worlds and philosophies.

Allan.

 

[grodog]

So, is Aliera e'Kieron a video game character, then??

Allan.

 

[Beoric]

No, this is "Book Fucking Talk", she's a character from a series of books by Steven Brust.

 

[Osrnoob]

Good shout out to Herbert's other books!

Anyone else read those and have thoughts?

Also want to bump the previous point @bryce0lynch called out one of his favorite sci Fi series that is on a long hiatus with a GOT like long break in-between books

This was mentioned maybe a year or two ago on the blog. Anyone remember what that was?

 

[squeen]

I bought a Herbert Non-Dune collection back in the early 80s after reading Dune. While weird and exotic, they didn't grab me is the same way as stories. That said, it's always been my desire to re-read them as a much older adult.

 

[Osrnoob]

Same here. I must say Grodog has me close to trying them!

The ship ones sound cool

My other point from someone (like many) who has only read Dune books. Dune grabs people because it's archetypical power fantasy.

The very thing Herbert wrote it to rally against lol

Those other elements seem more at the forefront in his other work

 

[Hemlock]

My other point from someone (like many) who has only read Dune books. Dune grabs people because it's archetypical power fantasy.

Is it, though? Do most people really fantasize about the power of being able to make educated guesses about the future? If so, wouldn't that make Isaac Asimov's Foundation and Second Foundation books power fantasies too?

I do concede that at the point where Leto puts on the sand trout and becomes super strong and nigh-invulnerable, yes, that's a power fantasy, but that's three books in and I think not as iconic or well-known as Paul's story from Dune.

The only thing I remember about my exposure to Herbert's other writing (maybe it was The Lazarus Effect?) is that it was kind of depraved and perverted. I don't want to say how but it was unpleasant.

Give me Dragaera over Dune any day. One more week until Lyorn comes out! (Book 17.)

 

[Hemlock]

So, is Aliera e'Kieron a video game character, then??

Allan.

No, she's a literary character by Steven Brust whose original roots apparently lie in an old RPG campaign that Brust played way back. Possibly Empire of the Petal Throne but don't quote me on that. See https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/Dragaera for character gist.

 

[Beoric]

re: Herbert and characterization, I disagree that he doesn’t produce characters with sufficient depth you could care about them; my take is that he actively subverts our desire to like them in the traditional “protagonist as hero” way, since he sees Paul (and later Leto) as the extraordinarily dangerous creatures that he’s exactly trying to warn us as readers against..

I'm not sure I agree with this take. Paul and Leto had the same vision, but Paul wasn't up to it. Leto make an enormous sacrifice to ensure that humankind would exist eternally, a goal which he succeeded at. The messianic Leto had the kind of selflessness that autocrats never actually have; if anything, he makes a case for autocrats, because he thinks he knows what is best for everybody and is proven correct. So even if it was Herbert's intention to warn us against autocrats, I don't think that is what he accomplished.

One more week until Lyorn comes out! (Book 17.)

Just in time for Christmas! (Because Brust can never do anything in a remotely commercial manner.) Do we think Aerich will feature?

 

[grodog]

Also want to bump the previous point @bryce0lynch called out one of his favorite sci Fi series that is on a long hiatus with a GOT like long break in-between books

This was mentioned maybe a year or two ago on the blog. Anyone remember what that was?

The one I’ve been waiting on since the late ‘80s/early ‘90s is Gerold’s _War Against the Chtorr_ series, which has made GoT look timely in comparison Good series about an ecological invasion of Earth, set in the near-future.

Not sure if that’s what Bryce had mentioned though.

Allan.

 

[Osrnoob]

Chtorr might just be the one!

I'll look into it!

 

[Osrnoob]

The Toxic Wood | tenfootpole.org

tenfootpole.org

grodog with the rizz

 

[Osrnoob]

I saw a few interviews with this author. They are still writing but seem so uninterested in sci Fi and this story. Not sure if it's worth jumping into?

Not a 1 to 1 but they also have terrible taste in modern tv, mentioned Hawaii 5 O reboot and stuff like that. They seems to think of Chotrr as a series was in the 80s who cares.

To think this is the guy who created the Tribbles?!

I saw a John Cusack movie based on his stuff that sucked. Granted adaptations are not source material.

I get falling away from your creative passions from earlier in life. This seems to be a case.

 

[The1True]

I get falling away from your creative passions from earlier in life.

It's like people who say they "grew out of heavy metal". Man, fuck you and your post haircut work, Hetfield!