General Discussion

[The Heretic]

Actually, it sounds more like 1917 to me. We'll "liberate" you. If you are not for us you are against us. We have some nice gulags for you if you do not bend your will to our way. BUT ANYWAY.

It's unfortunate that Gary Gygax didn't fully explain how these were meant to be played. Growing up, me and everyone I knew played them as if they were meant to be direct assaults. But we were young then.


The Heretic

 

[Beoric]

Spoiler: THIS IS FIGHTING CORRUPTION

MINUTES AGO:
You might think its 2024, but it's starting to feel an awful lot like 1776

x.com

x.com

Way to cool things down, squeen. Good work. Fuck you, you fucking idiot. This was the one space where I could talk about gaming and mostly avoid that bullshit. Yeah politics came up, but is was fucking gaming related. And you are spoiling that for me, you jackass. Maybe for yourself, too, if you alienate enough people.

@DangerousPuhson, you aren't helping. Please stop fighting with him and put him on ignore.

Squeen, I'm going to put you on ignore for a while, and wait to see if this site actually turns back to gaming discussions. DP too, if he insists on poking the bear.

Ugh, I took to long to write this. @The Heretic, and everyone else who is pissed at squeen, can you just put him on ignore for a while instead of continuing the argument?

 

[Malrex]

@Beoric good call. Done.

 

[The1True]

This is 100% how we always played

'Like' issued and then withdrawn for somehow injecting politics back into this.
Come on man.

 

[The Heretic]

Ugh, I took to long to write this. @The Heretic, and everyone else who is pissed at squeen, can you just put him on ignore for a while instead of continuing the argument?

Done.

I am sad that he is so close minded. I would've been interested in hearing what he had to say, but not on those terms. I'm open minded and I like to understand other people's points of view, but that would've been a waste of time. BUT ANYWAY.

Advice time! My group has finally taken notice of their main antagonists, yet they still intend to pursue the master of a minor wizard cult they had a brush with (see Dungeon Magazine #21 (?) In the Dread of Night, rewritten and purged of the ren faire and excess). I am having trouble coming up with an interesting (at least to me) "wizard's tower" for them to explore.

So. High level wizard. He's actually out of the lair, as he wants to end the world (Tharizdun cult) and has found leads to the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun (which the PCs may follow if they are interested). The lair is in a ruined city run by orcs, the 'city of steam' because of natural saunas that used to attract the wealthy;. The lair will be underground. I'd like something like Sleepless(?), by the guy who did the Mud Sorcerer's Tomb. Interesting and dangerous wizardry to play with, other apprentices to interact with. I was thinking of reworking the Crypt of Istaris because I thought I remembered that being halfway decent, but I was wrong. Any ideas?

Oops, off to the bus. I can fill in more details to those that are interested.


The Heretic

 

[DangerousPuhson]

@DangerousPuhson, you aren't helping. Please stop fighting with him and put him on ignore.

Squeen, I'm going to put you on ignore for a while, and wait to see if this site actually turns back to gaming discussions. DP too, if he insists on poking the bear.

I'm done poking. Taking a night to stew made me accept that you can't rationalize with some folk, so I won't try.

So... gaming discussions...

Heretic, your sauna Tharizdun idea sounds fine and functional. I'd go with that.
Well, I mean technically I would make something up from scratch, but you know what I mean... sounds fun.

 

[squeen]

Universally the left can dish it out, but they can't take it. If you don't want to see contrary politics, don't look behind the spoiler-tag or follow the link. Seemed fairly a benign compromise.

Obviously, I didn't start it but DP "wins" with y'all, solely because you've absorbed the same legacy media brainwashing as him. The truth is out there is you go looking, but it takes a shitload of time. Chaos and lies serve the goals of the elites' establishment.

 

[The Heretic]

Heretic, your sauna Tharizdun idea sounds fine and functional. I'd go with that.
Well, I mean technically I would make something up from scratch, but you know what I mean... sounds fun.

Oh you know, I would but I don't have as much time (nor inclination) to make something up from scratch. I should clarify, I put the temple of Tharizdun hundreds of miles away, so it's not in the city of steam itself. That's to give them a bit of a chance. They're level 5. The head wizard likes to use Stone to Flesh on his opponents. This gives them time to level up before they confront him, if they go that way. It also adds interest to the dungeon. There will be statues of his former victims. If they realize this and find a way to break the enchantment, they can get information and potential henchman. One of the statues will be a mutual enemy, which could be very interesting if the individual is freed.


The Heretic

 

[DangerousPuhson]

I know I said I wouldn't, but I'm nipping this in the bud (you folk probably have him on ignore, so you probably didn't see the reaction post squeen made just now). Spoilers to keep it clean:

Spoiler: icky icky stuff

@squeen: First, you started this with your "On politics" spoiler tag thing. I initially posted in anger that the election results were BS, but that was where I ended it. Then you got all smarmy and "we'll liberate you next", and that's where shit got real.

Second, I can absolutely take whatever you can dish, but this is not the place for it. When your only response is "GFY", it means you've crumbled - in the parlance of your people "you've melted, snowflake!". I don't think you're being as persuasive with your arguments as you think you are.

Third, you assume that we aren't savvy to the goings on of the world simply because we don't agree with you - that we've been "brainwashed" or whatever. I propose an alternative explanation: we are savvy to the world, and that's exactly why we disagree with you.

A flat-earther thinks the earth is flat and the world is conspiring to hide that; how would you feel if a flat-earther came up to you and said "you're buying into the bullshit, here's some videos about the earth being flat, wake up sheeple"? That's how we feel right now with your videos and posts. You're not going to convince anyone that Trump is great with videos and news articles, anymore than a flat-earther can convince you about a flat-earth with videos and articles.

It's not about "the left can't take it" - it's more like "you sound like a lunatic right now, please stop"

Back to games:
@The Heretic so what's the issue? What are you unsure of/need help with/want feedback on? Linked adventures sound pretty straightforward to me, no?

Sidenote: love the petrified enemy bit; totally stealing that for my campaign, but with the party rival instead. I bet my players smash him to chunks.

 

[Avi]

I thought better of you guys...
Squeen, a valuable member of the community is hounded by dipSheet a known malcontent - and you ignore Squenn????

 

[The Heretic]

Back to games:
@The Heretic so what's the issue? What are you unsure of/need help with/want feedback on? Linked adventures sound pretty straightforward to me, no?

Sidenote: love the petrified enemy bit; totally stealing that for my campaign, but with the party rival instead. I bet my players smash him to chunks.

I'd like ideas for different interesting rooms to have in a wizard's lair, and any recommendations I can look at to get additional ideas from. You have your basics, "summoning room", "alchemy lab", "reagent/spell component room", and maybe some a bit off the wall like "magic mirror communication room", but I'm hoping to get additional ideas. Stuff that's interesting, stuff that I wouldn't imagine myself. The first actionable room in the Crypt of Istaris (Dungeon #9) is a good example. There's a statue of a wizard in the room that's a puzzle. If you ignore the statue and head down one of the passages a wall will block you off and the statue will start shooting magic missiles. Fun stuff like that.


The Heretic

 

[squeen]

Thanks for the support Avi, but it's fine. Let them vent and kick the dog (even if it's me). Their political world-bubble just burst. We'll all come back together after an extended silence and start murmuring about D&D again. No crisis. Also, there's now a decent chance that life is going to get better for everyone soon and there will be some sheepish confessions of hysteria. Propaganda & lies will be exposed when the deep-state dies. Gen X's desire is to bring the 80s back (like the way boomers just forced us all to relive the sh*t 70s culture war)---good vibes will rule and D&D should be HUGE!

 

[DangerousPuhson]

is hounded by dipSheet a known malcontent

I assume you mean me. What did I ever do to you?

I'll have you know I'm hardly qualified to be considered a "malcontent"; I just have strong opinions that other people have problems with sometimes, and I don't roll over when somebody tries to come at me. It's not like I'm flooding the forum with malicious spam and trolling points; my shit is on-topic and my points are due consideration. Passionate conversation is not the same as spiteful conversation, no matter how heated it gets.

 

[squeen]

Come on DP! You know you're a "malcontent" --- wear the badge with pride. I've call you a provocateur a bunch of times and you liked it. It means exactly the same thing.

What you were trying to do, by calling me out as a member of a hated sub-sect (i.e. Trump voter) in order to group-shame me was actually acting like a Marxist stooge. That's the truly evil appellation (sorry Bryce!). Malcontent is the same as "bad boy". You're just acting hurt because Avi defended me against the group-hate, breaking the momentum. He pushed back against the majority, and that takes real courage.

Look. I know you and your tactics. I'm not afraid or offended. We are on-line, i.e. I'm not going to get lynched, so I can safely find your antics and thinking amusing. I think the whole board does, and usually it's good grist for general discussion. @The1True, @Beoric, and @The Heretic taking your side because of their politics is to be expected. No worries. You and I sniping at each other is not the issue. When I tell you to f*ck off, its just me saying "I see the trap you have laid, I'm not walking into it."

The real inflammatory issue was that I linked to the dreaded enemy --- the man The Party has instructed is the target of our Orwellian "Two Minutes of Hate". Blocking me is a proxy for blocking him.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Spoiler: I CANT STOP MYSELF FROM ENGAGING, HELP ME!

You know you're a "malcontent" --- wear the badge with pride. I've call you a provocateur a bunch of times and you liked it.

I didn't "like it". I found it insultingly dismissive of what I considered valid points, actually.

I'm not a malcontent, nor am I a provocateur. I am a guy, with opinions, in a forum with a bunch of guys with slightly different opinions. Disagreement and heated discussion are par for the course; that's not malcontent/provocateur behavior, it's just how forums are. When you go against the grain, you get pushback (Exhibit A: this conversation) - that's not the same thing as deliberately sabotage. Rational people are able to distinguish between the two.

What you were trying to do, by calling me out as a member of a hated sub-sect (i.e. Trump voter) in order to group-shame me was actually acting like a Marxist stooge.

I didn't do anything, you've group-shamed yourself with your words and actions. I had no idea who you voted for until you told us all who you voted for.

And "Marxist stooge"? Really? Buddy, you sound nuts... like "dude-shouting-at-random-people-on-the-subway" nuts. The cold war is over. But hey if you really hate Marxists so much, you had better vote for the guy who is best buddies with Putin and Russia, amirite? Because logic.

For the record, I didn't block you... but damn you for making me dislike you, squeen. I was just starting to warm up to your folksy charcoal sketches too.

 

[Beoric]

I'd like ideas for different interesting rooms to have in a wizard's lair, and any recommendations I can look at to get additional ideas from. You have your basics, "summoning room", "alchemy lab", "reagent/spell component room", and maybe some a bit off the wall like "magic mirror communication room", but I'm hoping to get additional ideas. Stuff that's interesting, stuff that I wouldn't imagine myself. The first actionable room in the Crypt of Istaris (Dungeon #9) is a good example. There's a statue of a wizard in the room that's a puzzle. If you ignore the statue and head down one of the passages a wall will block you off and the statue will start shooting magic missiles. Fun stuff like that.


The Heretic

I'm late for work, so I can't post a lot, but I will say this. I think the big problem with wizard's towers is that a tall column of stacked rooms has difficulty being anything other than linear. I have two points on this:

1. When talking about castles, the word "tower" doesn't necessarily mean what we normally think of as a tower, it refers to the keep, or sometimes the whole castle. So you have less limitations on your architectural design.

2. If the wizard is high level, the tower could push into extra-dimensional space, sort of a Tardis by tower kind of thing.

EDIT: 3. Building on #2, you could have all sorts of crazy stuff in there. I was thinking about modelling it on Castle Amber (Zelazny, not X2), but I actually think a better source of inspiration would be the 1985 horror comedy movie "House". Or you might be able to actually use parts of X2, but I don't remember it well enough to know for sure.

 

[Malrex]

I thought better of you guys...
Squeen, a valuable member of the community is hounded by dipSheet a known malcontent - and you ignore Squenn????

He was asked to stop a few times and he kept doubling down and looks like maybe tripling down now.
DP was asked to stop too and keeps posting spoilers so I'm putting him on ignore now as well.

And for the record, I hate all politicians equally.

@The Heretic --I think when approaching your Wizard Tower idea, you should keep with your theme. You said the lair is underground...but when I read your description, I kept thinking of the 'city of steam'....I'm picturing a squat main tower with multiple towers branching off of it....access to the towers is not by stairs but by steam shafts that work like a mundane levitation. All the usual stuff like the alchemy lab and whatnot---Im thinking the wizard may of chose this area because it interests him, so maybe most of his experiments are dealing with steam or mineral bath/water type stuff. In fact there should be some sort of fancy bathroom with a special property mineral bath.
Or to go bonkers--maybe its not really a tower but a lair built into a geyser....

So there could still be some mundane levitation shaft areas. Traps could be bursting hot water, high areas of pressure, pockets of bad gas, etc. Interesting vents that direct breezes to take sulphur smells away (but could be different points of access).

Some of the lair could be underground for sure, but would be moist, with hot water droplets dripping from the ceiling, maybe some funky fungi (sorta overdone) is growing down there or molds. But more importantly, I would focus on the different minerals...a rainbow of colors. Maybe he was working on a special mineral golem.... for your viewing pleasure for epithermal environments-- Bing Videos
Could be lava tubes and shafts thrusting deep underground...etc.
Maybe the orcs have a big mining area under here as well....and they just cracked open a steam mephit nest or something to add some chaos.
Treasure could be new magic items using steam (Wand of Steam?) or spells going along with the theme (Flesh to Mineral...Steam Scorcher (no idea what that spell would do but sorta sounds cool?).

I keep thinking of White Plume Mountain, but don't think that exactly fits. I dont read many adventures anymore so not sure of any good examples.

I dont know...everyone makes goblins in a hole or wizards in a tower--but no one has done a wizard in a geyser...just saying.

 

[The Heretic]

I'm late for work, so I can't post a lot, but I will say this. I think the big problem with wizard's towers is that a tall column of stacked rooms has difficulty being anything other than linear. I have two points on this:

100% agreed. I think you were in a hurry and missed the part where I said the wizard's 'tower' is going to be an underground lair.

EDIT: 3. Building on #2, you could have all sorts of crazy stuff in there. I was thinking about modelling it on Castle Amber (Zelazny, not X2), but I actually think a better source of inspiration would be the 1985 horror comedy movie "House". Or you might be able to actually use parts of X2, but I don't remember it well enough to know for sure.

I absolutely love X2. Used it already, alas. Come to think of it, maybe I could find some inspiration from Tegel Manor.

The Heretic

 

[The Heretic]

And for the record, I hate all politicians equally.

Politicians are a necessary evil. Woe to those who are beguiled by their false promises.

@The Heretic --I think when approaching your Wizard Tower idea, you should keep with your theme. You said the lair is underground...but when I read your description, I kept thinking of the 'city of steam'....I'm picturing a squat main tower with multiple towers branching off of it....access to the towers is not by stairs but by steam shafts that work like a mundane levitation. All the usual stuff like the alchemy lab and whatnot---Im thinking the wizard may of chose this area because it interests him, so maybe most of his experiments are dealing with steam or mineral bath/water type stuff. In fact there should be some sort of fancy bathroom with a special property mineral bath.
Or to go bonkers--maybe its not really a tower but a lair built into a geyser....

That's an interesting idea. I've been kind of regretting the idea to make this a 'city of steam' but I should lean into that. I needed a justification in my mind as to why this city existed where it did (I drew the map in college, so it's remained static while my concept of the world has evolved). But that's a good idea.

I hate to bring it up, because no one wants to hear someone go on and on about their campaign, but this all fits with the campaign's back story rather well. The wizard is interested in the power he thinks he will gain by bringing about the end of the world. The city is perched above a huge shallow, unnavigable lake (think Caspian Sea or larger), and unknown to everyone one of Tharizdun's evil underling gods is imprisoned underneath this sea. The steam is something of a byproduct of that prison. In world there is a prophecy that when this god is released the world will end. My apologies for the boring lore dump, but you gave me a gentle nudge to tie this all in.

So there could still be some mundane levitation shaft areas. Traps could be bursting hot water, high areas of pressure, pockets of bad gas, etc. Interesting vents that direct breezes to take sulphur smells away (but could be different points of access).

This is all good stuff to think about.

I dont know...everyone makes goblins in a hole or wizards in a tower--but no one has done a wizard in a geyser...just saying.

Very true! Not that I'd ever release it or write it down. White Plume Mountain was also another good idea. I might find something interesting in there to add to the mix.


The Heretic

 

[The Heretic]

I thought better of you guys...
Squeen, a valuable member of the community is hounded by dipSheet a known malcontent - and you ignore Squenn????

Respect is a two way street. Squeen has shown that he has no respect for the autonomy of other people. You don't happen to be Squeen's second account, do you?


The Heretic