The price of an adventure?

[Grützi]

So as some may have noticed I put up my adventure (The cistern of the three-eyed dwarves) on DriveThruRPG.
Gus L. once said he wished more OSR stuff was made freely available so I put it up under the PWYW tag with a suggested price of 0$.
As I want to take this whole "being an adventure writer in the OSR"-Gig a bit more serious I have a simple question:
What is a good price for an adventure?

I mean: I've seen some truly horrific shit reviewed on Bryces' blog that cost 10$ or more ... yet I've also seen awesome, beautifull stuff for nary a dime.

So whats an adventure worth and how do you calculate that?
Page count? Art? Style? Quality/quantity of content? System specific vs. agnostic?
Maybe we can get some pointers together what an adventure should be worth?

Just to be clear: I plan to put up most of what I make under the PWYW tag. This is just for me to adjust the suggested Price tag and maybe learn a few things here and there

 

[The1True]

They started an amazing conversation about this elsewhere on this Forum. I was pretty sad to see it die.
This is slightly tangential to what you're asking, but I wanted to say over there, that maybe creators could get the best of both worlds: Give away the first part of the adventure or a prequel adventure that sets up your hooks, establishes your setting and some of the forces at work and whets the GM/Players' appetites. Then charge a modest sum for further installments depending on the amount of labour/resources you've put in. Especially if you've payed for artwork, you need to at least try to make back your investment. AND THEN, if it does alright, run a Kickstarter to do a fancy, limited print run of the collected work with all-new, original artwork by Erol Otus and forward by grizzled OSR whore du jour, and charge the kind of money only Americans would pay

 

[Yora]

For me, the problem is that I expect most adventures to turn out to be junk I never end up using. When I expect to be throwing away my money, I am unwilling to make it any significant amount.

I don't even know what I would consider a good price for a good product.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

Couple things to consider when coming up with an asking price:

- Don't even consider the costs it took for you to make the product. The customer certainly won't. Prices are set by what a market is willing to pay, not what you think is fair to recover your costs (this is the origin of "the customer is always right", by the way - not some weird entitlement crap that Karen is using to get a free Coke because the can is slightly dented). If you say "$15 sounds reasonable, if I sell 100 of these it'll at least cover my art costs", well the customer isn't privy to that logic. All they see is an adventure costing $15 sitting next to a different one that's $5, so they'll ignore yours.

- The two ways to maximize profit are generating popularity, and cutting overhead costs. It's not some slider bar where you can adjust price and watch number of buyers go up and down until you hit a balanced sweet spot. Popularity is grown through advertising, brand recognition, good reviews, industry buzz, word-of-mouth, etc. The situation is not "if you build it, they will come" - it's "if people are looking for it, they will get it". Cutting overhead costs are self-explanatory - cheaper art, cheaper printing, POD, doing your own editing, etc. Popularity is the most important for sales numbers, while overhead costs is the most important for profit margin.

- The #1 obstacle to the sale of inexpensive consumer goods (like PDF modules) is ease-of-purchase. You'd be amazed how many people are likely turning down even free PDF modules because they have to jump through some small hoop like creating an account on a RPGDriveThru. If there's a price involved and someone is on the fence about the purchase (because not enough popularity has been generated), then it's a compounding problem on top of the ease-of-purchase problem... "Now I have to make an account AND put in a credit card, for some $3 module? Hard pass on that." Most small-scale modules - anything less than $10 - are almost entirely impulse buys (unless they've got the popularity to make people seek them out). Do you know where stores put all the impulse buys? Right at the cash, because people only buy them if they can just grab them and throw them onto the pile with all the other stuff they're buying!

- It's hard to gauge how much someone is willing to pay for a product, because it depends on so many factors: hype for the product, perceived quality of the product (notice I said "perceived" and not "actual"), ease-of-purchase, competition, reputation, customer demographics (poor people vs. rich people, and so on), apparent value in the product, usefulness... even just simple benign issues like it being the right weather outside, or the customer having just eaten a big meal. Almost impossible to nail down an exact formula from scratch. Real-world marketers set their prices by what the competition is doing, and sales history for existing lines - you don't have all that information at your disposal, so your best bet is to set an initial and then adjust... but there's even more strategy involved in that! Jacking up the price after it was cheaper loses all the sales from everyone who was on the fence about the purchase (think of every thing you didn't buy because you swear you saw it on sale recently, and you'll be damned if you're going to spend 25% more than it was last week!). Lowering the price is good for a quick bump in sales, but once it tapers off your essentially stuck at that price (see prior example). Bundling your product is more likely to move it but nets you less profits. Giving it away for free is a good way to build hype and reputation for the next thing you release, but won't do anything for you now and kills the product as a money maker forever (nobody's going to buy something that used to be free).

In short, this question is bigger than it seems, because marketing is more complicated than people give credit, and is very situational. Unless I can see what you're selling, I'm afraid I can't provide a more specific answer for your specific situation.

 

[Malrex]

When you figure it out...let me know!
Price and marketing is one of the hardest things to figure out in my opinion, especially when you have 0 experience in marketing like me.
Bottom line...for me at least, I go by my gut and set a price that I feel comfortable with, that if I was a customer I would nod my head in satisfaction at....so I can sleep at night.

 

[squeen]

Here's where my head is at right now (on a product I will probably never finish or get cleaned up enough to make public):

If you want notoriety and respect and don't really need the money---give away the PDF and then someday charge a premium for a 1st class book (if there is demand). The great "adventures of the past" are remembered fondly because so many people have them. Free is a good distribution boost.

It think that unless you have established a reputation---based on eariler (free) products---you are unlikely to make anything significant charging for the PDF.

Somewhere on Patrick Stewart's False Machine blog. He talks about this in-depth and offers some good advice he wished he'd knew.
Check it out. It totally contradicts what I just said.

PWYW is the best way (once the outliers are edited from the data) to know what people think your work it worth (to them).

(...then double it because we are all cheap bastards. )

 

[The1True]

So how do you market in the currently plateaued state of the OSR 'scene'? Used to be you started a blog and alluded to your dwimmer thing every chance you got until people were frothing for its release. To this day I still visit Dungeon of Signs and Dreams in the Lich House wishing they'd publish their awesome-sounding mega-dungeons. But no one's looking for a new blog these days. Megadungeons are the Rock upon which great bloggers break. (but that's for another thread).
I guess you could flog your wares on the Forums, but it feels crass. There's been a little of that here, but so far it's been pretty smooth; guys alluding to posts they made on their own blogs. That's cool and I'm down to click on the links. But I watched in dismay as Dyson's shot at a Facebook group to replace the dying G+ (FYDIYRPG) turned into a long string of posts from guys promoting their artwork or map making or weird new boardgames etc. I guess what I'm saying is there's an art to promoting your stuff on the forums and I don't know what it is.
Otherwise, you need to throw your work at Prince or Tenfoot or Endzeitgeist and hope they get around to it and don't tear you a new asshole when they do...

Definitely, I think people should be forming collectives (like Hydra) to create a trademark that implies your work will meet certain standards. That there will be a certain continuity of form and presentation. That you will put together a certain amount of original (and attractive) artwork and good maps. You're selling to Dungeon Masters, and DM's fetishize art and maps. That's what we see when we first open the book and flip through it. It's what fires our imagination initially. The second thing we see is the layout and finally we'll get down to the text. Get enough people together to afford putting out a professional product, and I believe you can command a fair price. And by that I mean take your favourite early 80's TSR module and adjust for inflation. People will pay $15+ for an attractive, professionally laid-out, printed product. I do all the time.
I will allow though, that when it comes to digital, it has a LOT less value to me (since I'm a lot less likely to thoroughly read or use it) and as a result I am unwilling to spend more than a couple of dollars unless the author can point to actual value in his digital product (like maps and artwork ready for VTT's and solid hyperlinks and bookmarking throughout).

And yeah, definitely build some hype with a cheap, rough and ready digital first edition and then clean it up, buy some actual friggin art (you guys, how many times do I have to say this. I am so sick of crappy, public-domain renaissance woodcuts and B&W clip-art in otherwise amazing adventures) run a Kickstarter and sell that thing to me. GOD DAMN, I would kill for a coherent copy of DCO!...

 

[Yora]

I don't know if nobody wants to read it. I am more under the umpression that there is very little worth reading these days. When I get interested in new advetures, it's because I hear or read that the writer has new or different ideas.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

So how do you market in the currently plateaued state of the OSR 'scene'?

Definitely, I think people should be forming collectives (like Hydra) to create a trademark that implies your work will meet certain standards.

This is probably the most potent tool in the community today. Now that G+ has died, there are essentially four avenues for adventure writers to spread word about their product: forums (dragonsfoot, enworld and the like), YouTube (provided you get in good with someone who already has a presence), blogs (a good tool for those already in the know, but less helpful to reach those outside the community), and Facebook groups/subReddits (who usually have strict product promotion policies). Those with an existing reputation have a fifth option - their website - but websites rarely get checked unless they include a popular blog component.

Collectives form a ripple effect of cross-promotion which works great. Attaching more and more names to a project sucks in people who care about any one of the contributors, and increases exposure. If there's a project coming out by four guys you've never heard of and Matt Finch, then you'll go "ooh, a new Matt Finch adventure" instead of "who the fuck are these guys?". People just kind of latch on to a single name they know, regardless of the fact that his part in the thing is but 1/5th of it.

So, who wants to form The Fellowship of the Pole? Wait, I think that name already belongs to a gay strip club...

 

[Malrex]

You never find this type of info online...once in awhile you get a little nugget here and there, but its all so damn secretive. Is it taboo for publishers to talk about? I don't know. I'm more of a hobbyist, so not sure I give a fuck about keeping quiet, although talking money can be awkward I suppose. I find the subject kinda fascinating to be honest and wish I was better at it. So if you want to read my ramblings/thoughts--....Let's Dance!

PWYW is the best way (once the outliers are edited from the data) to know what people think your work it worth (to them).

I wanted PWYW to work, but in my experience, it just doesn't if you are starting out. You might get a great amount of downloads, but are people actually going to read it? Do they find value in it? I can talk numbers if people think its helpful. It might be skewed though as popular writers may have better results than myself (I think Evil Hat had some success with PWYW?). But I could break down Kellerin's Rumble which received a Best rating from Bryce and is PWYW as an example if people want.

But no one's looking for a new blog these days.
I guess you could flog your wares on the Forums, but it feels crass. There's been a little of that here, but so far it's been pretty smooth; guys alluding to posts they made on their own blogs. That's cool and I'm down to click on the links. But I watched in dismay as Dyson's shot at a Facebook group to replace the dying G+ (FYDIYRPG) turned into a long string of posts from guys promoting their artwork or map making or weird new boardgames etc. I guess what I'm saying is there's an art to promoting your stuff on the forums and I don't know what it is.

First of all, when I first started out, I would post on forums. I'm usually stalking the Dragonfoot boards, but other boards I would just post without being part of the community on the correct board. I hated it. I don't do it anymore. I'm a hobbyist, so if I hate doing something, then I'm not going to do it. Well...I might actually for a Kickstarter out of desperation, but for other low-key stuff, I just stopped doing it.

Caught red-handed!! I put up Forgotten Shrine of the Savior on my new blog/store to try and get some direction to my new blog (cause I worked hard on the website damn it). But hey, the adventure was free! And it worked as I got a lot of people to come by and download it. Did they read any of my BS or check out my store?--doubtful...but whatever, its all good, and an experiment. And ya, I may continue to throw in some titles or plugs if I think its appropriate during a discussion (like Kellerins Rumble above--pretty sneaky huh!)--but it's not my main goal anymore. Honestly. I fucking hate advertising and I think people, just like The1True, is sick of seeing shit cluttering up boards with their promotions. But you can't really blame them...its fucking hard to get the word out. So I set up a FB page, MeWe, Instagram, and now my own web page. I'll talk about my stuff there and people who are interested in it can see it, instead of me jamming it down people's throats which I despise doing (and don't think its very helpful).

Otherwise, you need to throw your work at Prince or Tenfoot or Endzeitgeist and hope they get around to it and don't tear you a new asshole when they do...

This is by far the best method I've found. I would include Melan, Ynas Midgard, and Vorpalmace too. Not sure about others as I've been declined. I'm still waiting on Endzeitgeist. This method doesn't guarantee sales--but it does help in getting the word out.

Collectives form a ripple effect of cross-promotion which works great. Attaching more and more names to a project sucks in people who care about any one of the contributors, and increases exposure. If there's a project coming out by four guys you've never heard of and Matt Finch, then you'll go "ooh, a new Matt Finch adventure" instead of "who the fuck are these guys?". People just kind of latch on to a single name they know, regardless of the fact that his part in the thing is but 1/5th of it.

I think there is truth to this. Red Prophet Rises (oh shit, I did it again) is Merciless Merchant's best seller, probably because Prince is popular and people were curious (and also because its a good adventure if I do say so myself).

Summary: If I had to do it all over again....and I'm going to contradict myself a little, but this is what I would do:
I would write a great, short adventure and throw it up as a PWYW and try to get a review. People download it for free...this builds up your email database that Drivethru keeps track of. Then....and this is my new experiment that I heard Mr. Zweihander talk about, is your next adventure you put it up for the price you want, but you give all those people who downloaded your PWYW adventure and give them a deal. You give your customers deals and treat em like royalty.

I did this with A Thorn In The Side (see what I did there?). I gave all my past customers a 3 day deal to get it for half off or 35% off (I can't remember) and I only advertised on my own FB, Instagram, etc. It basically got the same results as me flapping my gums all across the lands (and saved me time). It gave my past customers a bonus, which I'm assuming they like, and it may have enticed a few more of them to buy in that certain timeframe to help me make back some costs.

Now the goal is to direct people to my store where Drivethru doesn't take 35% of my profits. Was hoping a free adventure on my blog would increase subscriptions to my newsletter/email customer base so I could tell people when I have a new release or sale, but people just zoned in on the free adventure and left. I can't really advertise my store through Drivethrurpg's tools, so it's my new headscratcher and may need to resort to some sort of sale and advertise it on all the boards/forums again, which I don't really want to do. That's all I got...hopefully helpful to new publishers.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

My education is in Advertising; I learned the tricks of the trade when it was my major in college, but never got a real chance to use them professionally, as every job I've had has been entirely unrelated to advertising. I preface this so you know that what I am about to suggest is backed by proven industry success, and is in fact what proper "professional" marketers do.

I am loathe to say this because it is what most people would consider super manipulative and downright sleazy, but here's the honest truth about what advertising in this sort of environment requires: astro-turfing.

For those unfamiliar with the term, there is another term called "grassroots marketing" - this is where a concept/product/brand/whatever starts from a little seed and, thanks to its acceptance by community word-of-mouth and actions on behalf of folks who are natural fans, your concept/product/brand/whatever develops a popular reputation built on honesty. Other people see how passionate these grassroot promoters are about your thing, so they take it as proof that your thing is good, and they invest into it as well, eventually causing more and more people to come onboard for the same reasons - passionate people breed more passion, which breeds more passionate people. It builds upon itself constantly, like a lawn seeding itself.

"Astro-turfing" is taken from the word "astro-turf", which is the fake grass used on baseball fields (famously in the Astrodome of Houston, hence the name). Astro-turfing is generating fake passion for your product by using fake reviewers and forum strawmen, tricking people into believing that what you are selling is more popular than it really is. Once the initial fake seeds are planted, the process either grows in a natural way from a bed of "real grass" (i.e. real buyers passionate about the product who have bought it on the back of false hype), or it fizzles out and dies once people see through the charade (if your product does not live up to its fake reputation). You see a lot of this on social media sites - corporations use it all the time.

Yes, it's as shifty as it sounds. But it also works, especially in areas where... let's just say... "grass doesn't grow easily".

Adventures/systems/modules/whatever need hype to make sales, and it's not like any of us can buy airtime on television or trailer space before a movie. We rely on word-of-mouth to build hype. Thing is, word-of-mouth is easy to fake in an environment of anonymity, which is exactly what message boards and blog comments are. And though I'm reluctant to recommend it (as before, pretty sleazy), but sometimes to get the ball rolling you need to push it along yourself.

I should note that I've never done this myself (I don't have a product to sell), though if done right you'd never know I was doing it at all (which is the whole point).

I'll add a totally fictional example: I bought Deep Carbon Observatory because Bryce and other reviewers gave it high praise on their blogs. There was genuine passion for the product there, so I bought it on the backs of the recommendation of others. I didn't read it myself and buy it; I bought it because someone else read it and I assumed a degree on honesty in their love for the product. Now it would be hard to claim that Bryce and the other reviewers were bought off for their glowing review because they have credibility among us, so it's natural to assume that the hype they felt is valid.

But what if Bryce and the other reviewers only read DCO because they saw somebody else somewhere spouting about how great DCO was going to be, months before it came out? What if they only reviewed it because people on their blogs kept saying "hey, that's a good review, but you should totally check out this new thing that just came out called Deep Carbon Observatory" and "Yo, when you gonna review DCO?" and so on?

Now imagine if the "people" stirring the reviewers to the product were actually one person (the author) using a few different aliases. That's astro-turfing. I'm not saying it always starts by duping reviewers (and no reviewer is going to help you if you have a bad product, and in no way am I implying that reviewers now are being preyed upon or anything like that), but reviewers are perfect targets because they have credibility and a built-in audience. Sometimes the astro-turfing extends into fake reviews by fake reviewers, to build more fake hype. In any case, the fake seed of passion is planted, and real hype grows from it and compounds onto itself.

 

[squeen]

I wanted PWYW to work, but in my experience, it just doesn't if you are starting out. You might get a great amount of downloads, but are people actually going to read it? Do they find value in it? I can talk numbers if people think its helpful. It might be skewed though as popular writers may have better results than myself (I think Evil Hat had some success with PWYW?). But I could break down Kellerin's Rumble which received a Best rating from Bryce and is PWYW as an example if people want.

Me a culpa! I shouldn't speak as if I have knowledge about a topic when I truly know nothing!

What I should have said is "I imagine PWYW is the best way (once the outliers are edited from the data) to know what people think your work it worth (to them). " By editing the outliers, I mean all the +/-2 or 3-sigma values outside of the mean. (There's actually a nice algorithm for this in regression mathematics called RANSAC, but you can do it manually too) Discard all the $0.00-$0.05 jokers (and your Mom who paid $100) and take the mean of the rest. (Take the standard-deviation too if you are curious about how noisey the data is). If someone bothered to come back and pay, and then left you a reasonable number---then that's good feedback.

That said, I think I have determined I am a worthless outliner. I have a PDF copy of Kellerin's Rumble which I had stumbled upon and download from DriveThruRPG back in August 2018...and I even think even I suggested to Bryce to review it. It is indeed one of my recent favorites (a rare example of a good city adventure)---and because I am so bad with attaching names to ideas---totally forgot you wrote it until now. What's more, I'll bet dollars-to-donuts I downloaded it for free an never went back to pay what I thought it was worth. What a bum I am!

I will fix it now (from your on-line store) and also give you this additional feedback --- when I went to download Forgotten Shrine of the Savior there was nothing on that page "properly" advertising your other good products. It sits in relative isolation requiring lazy hobbists like me to surf various site link. I thought "his blog", not "a store". I suggest you do what the Chaotic Henchmen Productions or False Machine does and put a scrolling banner on the right with your top products. That way no one misses the gems. The high production-value covers will catch the eye.

Also, Rumble is easily worth $5 or more for the PDF ($15 for a print edition) based on quality, but it's basic macro economics at work right now---the market is saturated and it's driving down prices. At a buck (what your asking) it's a steal!

Tootles!

 

[Grützi]

Whew I'm learning a lot thanks to this thread

I'm afraid I can't provide a more specific answer for your specific situation.

Don't sweat it ... Your answers already helped a great deal.
As most of the stuff I have planned isn't even written yet this whole thread is more of an intellectual exercise to me.
Good to see what authors of adventures and players alike think makes an adventure worth buying

Edit:
And while the Fellowship of the Pole is a godawful name I would totallybe down to team up with someone or to form a collective to create some stuff.
I mean come on guys ... if we don't do it who else will step up and get shit done?

 

[squeen]

Astro-turfing is generating fake passion for your product by using fake reviewers and forum strawmen, tricking people into believing that what you are selling is more popular than it really is. Once the initial fake seeds are planted, the process either grows in a natural way from a bed of "real grass" (i.e. real buyers passionate about the product who have bought it on the back of false hype), or it fizzles out and dies once people see through the charade (if your product does not live up to its fake reputation). You see a lot of this on social media sites - corporations use it all the time.

I am fairly certain this is one of the stated reasons Byrce started his site---to counter-act this kind of marketing via disingenuous on-line reviews. (5 stars!)

One more though for Malrex: I think Byrce is also right about previews, and I'll take it one step further: Preview the whole stinking thing in one of those "small" windows with a watermark so folks can see what they are getting, but not in a usable format. It may be the only way (other than trusted reviewers) to entice reluctant buyers in a saturated market of low-qualify products---without having to give it away entirely via PWYW and relying on people's guilt to make them "go the extra mile".

 

[Malrex]

Me a culpa! I shouldn't speak as if I have knowledge about a topic when I truly know nothing!

I don't know if I necessarily know what I'm talking about either, but its just been my experience so far.

I will fix it now (from your on-line story) and also give you this additional feedback --- when I went to download Forgotten Shrine of the Savior there was nothing on that page "properly" advertising your other good products. It sits in relative isolation requiring lazy hobbists like me to surf various site link. I thought "his blog", not "a store". I suggest you do what the Chaotic Henchmen Productions or False Machine does and put a scrolling banner on the right with your top products. That way no one misses the gems. The high-production value covers will catch the eye.

Feedback is gold to me so I appreciate it immensely. I'll have to fiddle with the website and correct that. Part of the problem is I had to self teach myself how to do all this stuff, so its a slow process. Thanks for your purchase, lol, you didn't have to do that, but thanks!

 

[squeen]

But I could break down Kellerin's Rumble which received a Best rating from Bryce and is PWYW as an example if people want.

I fogot to add, "yes. please" to this offer. I think it would be very interesting.

 

[squeen]

Thanks for your purchase, lol, you didn't have to do that, but thanks!

Look it wasn't charity or flattery. Kellerin's Rumble was one of the only examples of a city adventure with the kind of topography I was looking for. I was never going to run it "as is" straight out-of-the-box (sorry), but integrate it onto my own world's city. The generally high production value (I wanted SO BADLY to steal your sewer pics), clean organization, and OSR/S&W compatability made it jump out at me. That's why I mentioned it to Bryce in the first place. (Also *damn!*, **it's free!**, Whoot!) It was alway my intention to go back and pay for value received...like tipping good service...but I was distracted and then PROOF gone-from-my-mind....


EDIT: How obnoxious would it be it when someone downloaded a PWYW product for free, there was a follow-up email in a few days that said "Sorry to bother you, but did you like Product XXX? If so, then please consider a donation to the author that reflects the value you received. Thank you and we won't bother you with any future advertising."

EDIT #2: Naa, just watermark it with "FREE SAMPLE" across the text and quantize the PWYW increments in whole dollars.

 

[DangerousPuhson]

I am fairly certain this is one of the stated reasons Byrce started his site---to counter-act this kind of marketing view disingenuous on-line reviews. (5 stars!)

Oh likely, but the thing about good (skill-wise, not ethically) astro-turfing is that you can't even realize when it's happening.

Reviewer gives 5 star ratings all over the internet for the products of a specific company (despite other reviewers not agreeing), and only seems to honestly criticize other company's works? Obvious fake reviews.

But if he gives them 4/5 stars (or 3/5 on the lesser products), and says "these guys are usually pretty good, so I was eager to check out their upcoming release of Product X to see if it surpasses my expectations" - well, then he's built hype in a less obvious way.

And if he posts follow-up comments on his own reviews saying "4/5 for this? Are you crazy? This sucks because of XYZ!" and replies to himself with "I see where you're coming from, but honestly XYZ reasons don't bother me so much..." and other people (ie. rubes) say "yeah, I don't see how XYZ is such a big deal either, really..." then he's working the non-obviousness to a professional degree.

This is the darker side of advertising, the stuff that hides beyond what people know of billboards and commercials and other mainstream techniques...

 

[Malrex]

Look it wasn't charity or flattery. Kellerin's Rumble was one of the only examples of a city adventure with the kind of topography I was looking for. I was never going to run it "as is" straight out-of-the-box (sorry), but integrate it onto my own world's city. The generally high production value (I wanted SO BADLY to steal your sewer pics),

You heathen bastard! you were not going to run it as is??!!! HAH..great compliment in that you are planning to integrate into your own world's city...that's what it's purpose was...a modular adventure.
Got another...huge city adventure coming soon..the City of Vermilion.

Sewer pics were from the Maciej Zagorski of The Forge...they got great drawings.

I fogot to add, "yes. please" to this offer. I think it would be very interesting.

I'll get into the numbers tomorrow when I got more time.

 

[Malrex]

I fogot to add, "yes. please" to this offer. I think it would be very interesting.

Alright Kellerin's Rumble. This was my first city adventure ever...very intimidated by the idea, yet as I wrote it, I realized city adventures were damn fun and they kept growing all by themselves......which has made me write City of Vermilion which I'm going to kickstart next month or so for art...shit am I advertising again?

Anyways, wrote this adventure for my Patreon. I decided to make it free to give people an idea of what they would get by signing up to my Patreon (not sure that method worked at all, but another experiment at advertising). I threw it up on Dragonsfoot forums as a freebie, and threw it up on Drivethrurpg as PWYW. This is what happened:

Dragonsfoot--I don't have a timeline for it, but currently, it has 452 downloads. Wow...cool! No comments, no nothing...just people running for the free stuff. A comment or shout out would of been nice...seriously...it's like gold to small time publishers...but whatever, hope people used it and enjoyed it.

My Patreon--I think I made 12$ from my loyal patreon fans....fucking love these guys and gals.

Drivethrurpg--RELEASED: 8/2018--1 download--free
9/2018--1 download--free
The above is from 0 advertisements...It was a freebie so I didn't waste any time on it. I put it up there all quiet like.

10/2018--Bryce reviews it.....197 downloads...holy shit!! I was wondering wtf was going on at work because my phone was blowing up. This goes to show that Reviewers can blow shit up for you if it's good. Even if bad--it may still get some traffic. And even if horrible, it may still get some traffic and some views.....

Fast forward to today:
2083 page visits--meaning people clicked on the title to check it out
345 downloads both free and non/free (with Dragonsfoot thats a total of 797 downloads!..but...was it read and used? Did people value it other than Squeen?)
47 people chipped in a few bucks. Suggested price was 5$. Average price was $3.19. There was a few people who threw in 5$. God bless em...ya, you know who you are!
33 people have it in their wishlist
2 people have it in their shopping carts.
1 person bought it on Merciless Merchant store (thanks Squeen).

It got 4 ratings--1 five star, 1 four star, and 2 three stars. Average 3.8 stars--not bad. Got "Best" from Bryce--good enough for me!

Total cost to create Kellerin's Rumble--hmm..50-60 hours of my time..? Somewhere in there...Total art cost--64$--which is an average of each stock art pic being 4$ so could be +/- here.

Gross Sales: $181.76.....then Drivethrurpg takes its cut...
Total Profit: $97.42
Subtract the art....--97.42-64 = $33.42.
Buy pizza and a 6 pack and on to the next adventure!
Without Bryce's review, I may of gone hungry and been sober (thanks Bryce).

Let's compare that to my other PWYW--Special Area: The Ranger's Hideout (look for Special Area: Druid, and Special Area: Bard soon...shameless plug). This adventure was one of my firsts...and never got a review. I actually cringe a bit looking at it, as the layout is atrocious with the pictures, but I was learning and I think its a decent lil adventure....and its free so stop yer bitchin.

This was released in 5/8/17.
4,740 page visits (It was out longer than Kellerins, pretty decent traffic)
268 downloads--cool!
18 people chipped in a few cents/bucks.
Average Price--$1.94
Gross Sales--$34.92--then Drivethru takes its cut
Total Profit: $23.78
Art price--roughly $80. I went bonkers with art...and it's in color!
Subtract the Art= -$56.22
1 Review and ranking of 5 stars! Fuck yeah--I'll take it!

I actually had this whole adventure in my head and blew it out in about 12 hours though, so not a ton of time wasted---but no time is wasted because this is all for fun anyways....right? Right!

BUT...this is why I laugh/question when people tell publishers to get an editor. So I should throw down another $60-200+ for an editor to make -$256.22?? No thanks. If you want an editor--do a Kickstarter. When I have hired an editor, I got lucky and barely broke even with some of my later adventures after art. I really wanted to see if it made a difference in sales--it didn't, but admittedly, the writing is better.

Summary--PWYW is good for getting purchaser's emails so you can announce new products on Drivethru and start to get a customer base. But not very good if you are hoping to break even or make a profit...it's chancy. Plus some people throw in 5 cents, then give you a 3 star rank, which brings down your WHOLE average of everything you put out. That makes it pretty risky for people just to be an asshole (or maybe they were really unhappy with it, but since both happened in same day, seemed pretty suspicious). If everyone pitched in a 1$ or something I would do it more often, but DP mentioned that going through the process is a pain in the ass so I get it (which makes you wonder about those dudes who throw in 5 cents...).

This has just been my experience, may be different for others. Got to do this shit for fun people!