Ask Melan

[Osrnoob]

Greetings,

The purpose of this thread is to ask Melan questions as he seems to be a regular contributor here.

My reason for this is twofold:
1. I enjoy your articles on RPG theory and wish to pick your brain
2. Upon reading your adventures, I am now using Erillion as the chassis for our campaign

 

[Osrnoob]

My first question is about the Mage Tower (0709). It says the valley is ruled by goblins. In Citadel of Fire, the Mage Tower is the origin of raiding parties that terrorize the surrounding area.

Does this threaten Baklin or the very close Tol Tazeloth? In my head I imagine this could be bad for business. Yet, Slarkeron the Wizard lives in Baklin.

My second question is about the EMDT product listings, I see a number with the + (signifying English) sign but can not find them listed at https://unvisiblecitadel.blogspot.com/2015/05/melan-gabor-lux-bibliography-and.html

EMDT 8 Broken Wastes

EMDT 13 Malonei

EMDT 15 City Encounters (I know the original Nocturnal Table was in Knockspell but that is the title of EMDT 21. Was this Finch's City Encounters published in Hungarian?)

P.S. it is exciting that my current group is 5/6th people who have never played RPGs before.

Thank you so much for your time and work.

 

[Melan]

Here I am not reading up on the forums for a while, and almost missing this thread! Glad to know you are getting use out of Erillion. Tooting my own horn a bit, it may be a good place for RPG newbies. It is inspired by The Word of Chaos, the quintessential Hungarian adventure fantasy novel, which was in turn heavily inspired by The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh and The Secret of Bone Hill.

1) Mage Tower does not really threaten Baklin: neither are strong enough to challenge the other, nor do they have the motivation to do so. Baklin is a marine power interested in staying a hub of trade (and Tol Tazeloth is a small sea fortress on a formidably well-defended island); Mage Tower is a stronghold of high-level magic-users with arcane interests, and they are more inward-looking. They are "speaking past each other" because they speak different languages of power. Their goblin servants harrass the trade routes, but this is mostly brigandry, and easy to overlook. Meanwhile, Slarkeron and other magic-users are as useful to Baklin as a merchant city's connections to Mage Tower and its masters. It is a relationship built on distant coexistence, not existential rivalry.

1b) (At least in my campaign), the true danger to Baklin is found in the orcs of Tol Grannek: brutal, industrious and well-organised, they are learning to project power and establish smaller, less noticeable bases over the land. They can increasingly raise land forces, which Baklin lacks. The orcs are not strong enough yet, but in a decade or so, they will be.

2) These materials were published as zine articles, and later collected into the volumes on the product list. Broken Wastes was in Fight On! (Stone Gullet, The Tower of Birds, I Thirst, and an article on caravans). We first used these materials in a 2005 Wilderlands campaign! Molonei, an underground lost city with weird hedonists and an amoeboid demi-god was published in Knockspell, in the Isles on an Emerald Sea series. I plan to republish both of these collections with updates and expansions; Isles may come out this Autumn.

3) City Encounters is Matt's supplement, but edited to 300 instead of 600 entries. His booklet is comprehensive; the edited version was supplemental to a set of baseline tables (which are found in The Nocturnal Table), so I removed a lot of general "guards" and "brigands" encounters, and focused on the more detailed stuff.

 

[Osrnoob]

"speak different languages of power"

I love this, it makes so much more sense now.

Oh man, this is so cool, thank you so much!

They are still escaping the Lvl 0 Lair of the Lamb. I put it at the top of the abandoned tower to the South east of Baklin. I made the White Temple into the devotees of the God of the Acuaduct. I love the menace you can front with that religion - chanting CONQUEST IS DIVINITY.

I am sure more updates and questions once/if they escape (5 of 12 characters remain).

But above all, thank you Melan. Having a space to get ask questions is so so so cool of you. It means a great deal. In the beforetimes I was not a GM and the adventure is never easy but it has been so rewarding.

 

[squeen]

An awesome podcast for those who drink the Lynch/Prince/Lux Elixir:

Episode 20: Melan [english] – PESA

 

[Osrnoob]

Gabor do you know the work of animators Yuri and Franchesca? When I read your work I feel you must have seen it during Perestroika after bans were lifted.

If not an influence to you, I think of Soyuzmultfilm during that period when I run your work.

 

[Melan]

I have not heard of them yet.

 

[Osrnoob]

Watch with the lights off on the biggest screen you can

Yuri Norstein - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The couple rebelled against the style, but it comes from style of animation in that region. Drawn objects which are moved with poles or strings to create animation. The animator you highlighted in a blog post also used this style I believe.

It was the trademark of studio Soyuzmultfilm at the time.

Tale of Tales 1979 is the one everyone talks about. (For good reason)

The video above or the hedgehog and the fog are my favorites though:

 

[Osrnoob]

Read bits of your Picaresque RPG last night!

Excellent job on the gamemaster section. I found it a terse overview of so many good principles I hope to emulate in play!

I must say your adventure design section would be of interest to folks here. This also gives a good backdrop to your own reviews, supercritically in the bits you do differ with Bryce on.

 

[TerribleSorcery]

Differing with Bryce?? Uh oh...

 

[squeen]

@Melan : Huso mentions for his next (modified) AD&D campaign he is going to adopt your undead rules. What are those?

 

[Osrnoob]

@Melan : Huso mentions for his next (modified) AD&D campaign he is going to adopt your undead rules. What are those?

Not Melan but if you pick up EFF its called "Does energy drain duck" issue 1 or 2.

Also in C Xy or better Tegal Squeen

Quack

To keep a good subject going Melan can you speak to how those came about? A simpleton could say that changing level drain would be echoing WoTC on prioritizing "Fun".

How do you wrestle those Gary ideals with player groans and how does that play into your thoughts there. When did they come about and how, any different versions they have taken?

 

[squeen]

I have Castle X. I will look there (must have missed it).

Thanks.

 

[TerribleSorcery]

These rules were used in Melan's game Sword & Magic which is itself a reworking of D&D 3rd edition, stripped down to the chassis and informed by a classic AD&D sensibility. Of course in 3e, in lieu of level drain or save-or-die effects, everything does ability damage. I thought this was one of the very nice innovations of post-2000s D&D. Not that level drain isn't great, but it is nice to have one more tool for attacking the character sheet other than hit point damage. I use ability damage in my games a lot, even in B/X or other classic systems.

 

[Melan]

The rules go like this:

Does Energy Drain Suck?
These rules may help if you think it does.

• Wights, wraiths and other lesser undead drain 1d6 Constitution.
• Spectres, vampires and other greater undead drain 2d4 Constitution.
• Shadows drain 1d6 Strength.
• Scores recover at a rate of 1 per day.
• A character drained to 0 in a score is lost, and becomes an undead of the given type.

With these changes in effect, undead represent a greater immediate threat, but do not damage long-term character viability.

TerribleSorcery is correct to note that these rules originate in the d20-based Sword&Magic. However, apart from shadows' strength drain, they were not a part of 3e proper. 3e used an ungoly kludge called "negative levels", a complicated and unsatisfactory mechanic. Constitution drain is simple and effective.

These rules do not remove tension from the game, while they remove what I consider drudgery. In practice, a pack of energy draining undead can still be a terrible threat to a party, or at least a lasting consequence. Recovery from ability score loss is slow, and hitting PCs' Str/Con is hitting them where it hurts. I have used standard, by the book energy drain in some campaigns: the recently concluded Hoard of Delusion (AD&D), as well as The Four Dooms of Thisium (B/X). I have also used this version. The undead are scary either way!

Where the intent behind the rule bears some explanation is the campaign assumption that raise dead and similar high-level Cleric spells will be vailable, but very hard to come by. AD&D is a lot more generous in this respect - you can probably get a 5th or 6th level comrade raised or restored. In most of my games, dead is dead, and likewise, a lost level would be a lost level.

 

[squeen]

Thanks for the clarification all. Seems Melan has won Huso over, but I am still undecided. Level-drain is such extent a brilliant terror weapon that I'd hate to lose it entirely. Notice its wonderful game-balancing effect---higher level players fear undead MORE than mid and lower level ones! (Perhaps that's the real reason the Wizard hires your dung-in-boots party to raid the haunted temple for him...or you send your henchmen---under player control, of course---in true old-school fashion.) Also, I don't see the loss of levels as being catastrophic. Worst-case, the level-curve means PCs a level or two below their comrades will generally catch-up pretty quickly.

Also, there's a large middle-stat ground in which strength & constitution neither give nor take bonuses for which the game effect of a stat would be fairly benign, and (in AD&D at least) player's success are not so intimately tied to stat.

I have several times thought that perhaps partial level drain would work (i.e. a fixed number of XP drained per attack). But, of late, I've become very suspect of the point of rules-tinkering in AD&D. If you want an undead creature that drains con instead of levels, you can always just add a new monster, right? Less seismic? One-point per day seems awfully quick too. Per week perhaps? With healing and bed rest? We play a slower game.

Food for thought. Thanks again.

 

[Beoric]

Also, I don't see the loss of levels as being catastrophic. Worst-case, the level-curve means PCs a level or two below their comrades will generally catch-up pretty quickly.

This may be a contributing factor to the hate level loss gets in later editions; the level curve is much flatter and there is no catching up.

But, of late, I've become very suspect of the point of rules-tinkering in AD&D.

My impression is Melan's rule is more aimed at 0e or Basic+ games, and less necessary in an AD&D game. He says:

Where the intent behind the rule bears some explanation is the campaign assumption that raise dead and similar high-level Cleric spells will be vailable, but very hard to come by. AD&D is a lot more generous in this respect - you can probably get a 5th or 6th level comrade raised or restored. In most of my games, dead is dead, and likewise, a lost level would be a lost level.

 

[TerribleSorcery]

Holy fuck I forgot about negative levels!! That shit was such a pain.

 

[The1True]

What I like about a lot of the no-save level and ability damage in 3e is that you're stuck with it for the remainder of the adventure day, but there is a usually fairly reasonable saving throw to recover it at the end of the day. If you still can't make it, then yeah, it's time for the cleric to memorize some degree of Restoration or for a trip to town.

This may be a contributing factor to the hate level loss gets in later editions; the level curve is much flatter and there is no catching up.

Yeah, this is definitely a thing. Most of us would rather die and spend half a session doing nothing while our corpse gets carried out of the dungeon to the local hierophant than suffer permanent level loss.
A thousand thousand times worse than that though is the dreaded Mordenkainen's Disjunction. Fuck that NPC spell and fuck the DM who thinks it's no big deal to whip it out.

 

[Beoric]

A thousand thousand times worse than that though is the dreaded Mordenkainen's Disjunction. Fuck that NPC spell and fuck the DM who thinks it's no big deal to whip it out.

Easy come, easy go.

Hard to say if this is better or worse than doing it in 1e. I mean, in 3.5 it's easier to get replacement equipment, I think, but gaining and losing equipment isn't baked into the game in the same way. I see the 3.5 version has a bigger radius than the 1e version. Also, they got rid of this penalty: "Additionally, if an artifact is destroyed, the casting magic-user must save versus spell at −4 or permanently lose all spell casting abilities."