Best OSR System

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Some of those things in that picture have 100-200 hp now bro.
Meaningless HP inflation.

There is only one important question on the table --- does the paladin die in your edition or not?

If you answer "no" then your edition is doomed.

If you answer "yes"...then...GOOD!

C H O O S E ! :devilish:
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
So you are saying the paladin dies? Music to my ears.
He would have to be pretty high level to have a shot in 4e. I don't really play at those levels much, but according to the guidelines I would think he would at least need to be 26th level. Maybe 22nd if he was very lucky. At those levels I think a fresh paladin with good equipment and a Holy Avenger might have a shot in 1e as well, but it's been a while since I played so I may be wrong.

BTW, you may be interested to know that in 4e the "candy class" paladin is pretty well outclassed by the ordinary fighter. The ranger is about the same as a fighter, but also isn't really what you would think of as a ranger in 1e; he is more of a fighter in light armor. Your top tier of classes would be fighters, wizards, rangers and warlords (basically a weak fighter who can give up his attack to "order" a tougher fighter to make an attack instead). Paladins, bards, barbarians and rogues would be be second tier classes. Clerics and druids would be third tier.

Clerics in particular are a bit sad in 4e, I think because they were created before the designers realized that healing was less important than not getting hurt in the first place, or killing the enemy before they could hurt you.
 

Malrex

So ... slow work day? Every day?
Meaningless HP inflation.

There is only one important question on the table --- does the paladin die in your edition or not?

If you answer "no" then your edition is doomed.

If you answer "yes"...then...GOOD!

C H O O S E ! :devilish:
I cant answer this question because its just a fighter, not a paladin. I don't allow such candy classes in my game. Fighter must wear platemail and wield a longsword...check and check. In this situation, I think the fighter will die because it looks like he has no food and water or a backpack with gear. Maybe he has some veggies in that little pouch. But dont even get me started with all the equipment candy players want...they keep trying to have variety and I reign that in pretty damn quick.
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
Ha! Ever notice how, even in early edition D&D, none of the inspirational artwork ever has the party probing gingerly with a 10' pole, or meticulously pacing out distances for an accurate map, or pouring water to check for sloping passages, or spiking doors open or closed?

EDIT: Dumping your gear so you can fill your backpack with gold would be a pretty cool picture, though.
 

Two orcs

Officially better than you, according to PoN
The only D&D I ever played for any length of time is my 3 year (and running) ACKS campaign. It's a good system (wood is mispriced though, something which hilariously comes up time and again when players do the math on lumber operations and the author has to step in and show the calculation for the proper price). The main thing ACKS brings to the table is coherent economics and demographics, which makes ruling what a civilized area looks like a breeze. If you know how big and productive an area is you can derive the level of the ruler, the number of mages of a given level, the size of the garrison, the minimum value of the stronghold, how many henchmen and horses you can buy at the market etc.
 

Malrex

So ... slow work day? Every day?
Ha! Ever notice how, even in early edition D&D, none of the inspirational artwork ever has the party probing gingerly with a 10' pole, or meticulously pacing out distances for an accurate map, or pouring water to check for sloping passages, or spiking doors open or closed?

EDIT: Dumping your gear so you can fill your backpack with gold would be a pretty cool picture, though.
Probably because most DM's get rid of that candy ass equipment. One session, we had about an hour argument over spikes and the little hammer. The dude playing the fighter was desperate and wanted to know how much damage he could do with the little hammer. I told him he can't do that because fighters can only use longswords. So I ended up just getting rid of iron spikes and little hammers. They carry rocks now if they want to keep doors open. This has improved the game immensely.

I also had to get rid of the 10' pole....no..it's not an extra long quarterstaff and only the mage could even use it that way anyways and he is probably too weak to wield it...so bye bye 10' pole. Way too many arguments about it. I got my eyeball on mirrors next. They want to break it and use the glass as shivs. I told them there is only daggers in the game not shivs and their group didn't even have a thief at the time who could wield daggers so I said it was impossible.

At closer look at that picture, there must be four....so obviously the cleric got eaten by the big insect creature. The mage must be levitating and invisible and getting ready to cast a spell that I chose for them to cast and the thief is hiding in shadows getting ready for a backstab. He has been trying to move quietly, etc. for the last 8 rounds to get in the perfect shot. So the fighter might be in trouble without healing...
 

Beek Gwenders

*eyeroll*
The clarification comes in, to my mind, with regards to bringing together pieces from all 3 of the AD&D book into one place (e.g. halflings get +3 with missile weapons from the MM). OSRIC is an example of good archival research and best-effort at reading original intent, IMO. I haven't found (except for some missing stuff, like WvsAC) anything significantly different. They are, to my mind, the same thing---with a nod and wink that says we left some things out because of legal concerns (which subsequently proved to be minor). Those elements seamlessly stitch back in if you get the original books (now available, but weren't at the time of OSRIC's publication).

@Malrex & T1T: Eat your vegetables every day boys so your games grow up big and strong...and then, maybe later, you can have some candy.
Ha ha, you’ve managed to bring up an exact example of what many consider an ’interpretation’. I’m pretty sure legions of DF posters have been arguing for years that the +3 bonus to hit halflings get in the MM is only applicable to halflings as ‘monsters’, and I‘m pretty sure another legion have been arguing that the bonus is applicable for PCs too. 😄 If I remember correctly, Stuart Marshall even said he included it because he thought halflings could you use everything they needed. And just go and look up any initiative thread, and you’ll see that the system presented in OSRIC is in no-way agreed upon by players of 1e. Compare it to the A.D.D.I.C.T. document by DM Prata (another interpretation) for example. There are also multiple threads on DF or K&K addressing the little differences between the two games; whether you consider these to be significant differences or not is up to you. The non-inclusion of weapon vs AC and weapon speed factors IS a significant difference IMO, and radically changes combat options and how initiative works, for example.

OSRIC is a re-organisation of the texts coupled with the choice of certain interpretations and certain parts of the texts (like UA stuff), rather than a clarification.
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
And just go and look up any initiative thread, and you’ll see that the system presented in OSRIC is in no-way agreed upon by players of 1e. Compare it to the A.D.D.I.C.T. document by DM Prata (another interpretation) for example.
And here I let EOTB convince me that 1e initiative was clear and capable of only one interpretation, if only I had the wit and patience to understand it.
 

squeen

8, 8, I forget what is for
Good lord, Beeks!

You've just succeeded in pouring more undeserved crap on AD&D for the eager lynch mob. Here we go. Whatever you are implying with your DF vs K&KA warfare---it's minor, minor, minor hair splitting---not worth going into unless you are in the mood for a hatchet job. Six of one, half dozen of the other. Honestly minutia.
:rolleyes:
 

Malrex

So ... slow work day? Every day?
You are right Malrex: the image is missing a Librarian In Hell.
Mayhaps...a librarian with a specialty in demonology or an expert on hell verse would be valuable. Or if they were searching for a lost tome...or if those demons are burning books....
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
Mayhaps...a librarian with a specialty in demonology or an expert on hell verse would be valuable. Or if they were searching for a lost tome...or if those demons are burning books....
Well, don't forget 1e sages were 8 HD with up to 6th level spells, although the number they could memorize was quite limited.
 

The Heretic

Should be playing D&D instead
Mayhaps...a librarian with a specialty in demonology or an expert on hell verse would be valuable. Or if they were searching for a lost tome...or if those demons are burning books....
<shock> <horror> Those are DEVILS not DEMONS.
 

EOTB

So ... slow work day? Every day?
I’m ok with people choosing to consider OSRIC an interpretation. It’s an interpretation that gets used. You gotta learn early you’ll never please everyone. It’s very freeing.

People focused over-much on rules minutia arguments will never publish their preferences, because they’re too busy arguing them one person at a time. Forests, trees, all that.
 

The Heretic

Should be playing D&D instead
We didn't know this until the History of Middle Earth series came out containing Tolkien's notes and draft. But as it turned out Tolkien don't die. Yes their physical form will perish but their spirit will go to the Hall of Mandos, regain strength, and when ready regain a new body in Valinor. That process varies from individual to individual become particularly long if it somebody who done great evil in their life like Feanor and many of his sons.

For for that character in my campaign I would have you roll 1d100x10 to see how many years the character will come back from the dead and can return.
Alas, I don't think the reborn elves are allowed to leave Valinor. They're stuck there until the end of time.

Humans were special. They got to die and leave the middle-earth, their souls headed for destinations unknown.

Dwarves didn't have souls, so when they died they were dead. Gone.

FWIW the whole reincarnation thing came up in Deities and Demigods. Souls were assigned to all the PC races except elves, who had spirits instead. They would reincarnate while those with souls would go to the appropriate afterlife.
 

The Heretic

Should be playing D&D instead
Except he's in plate armor, so he's a UA paladin, which means he has better stats, the cavalier "to hit" bonus, +6 gear including a Holy Avenger, and good positioning at a choke point. He could get lucky.
Nah. That picture is in the PHB. He's wearing plate mail. IIRC full and field plate got mentioned in the DMG but became more of a thing with UA.

Yes, the rest of the party must be out of the picture, but they are there. There must be a magic-user among them, one who cast feeblemind on the Pit FIend. That's the only explanation for why the Pit Fiend (Genius intelligence) is sitting there, with wings and all, instead of flying up there and smacking that bitch out of his choke point.
 

Beek Gwenders

*eyeroll*
Good lord, Beeks!

You've just succeeded in pouring more undeserved crap on AD&D for the eager lynch mob. Here we go. Whatever you are implying with your DF vs K&KA warfare---it's minor, minor, minor hair splitting---not worth going into unless you are in the mood for a hatchet job. Six of one, half dozen of the other. Honestly minutia.
:rolleyes:
Ha, ha! It’s a strength of the game not a weakness for me. Just to clarify, I didn’t want to imply there was an interpretation warfare between the two sites, as far as I know, there isn’t. It’s an interpretation war between individuals on both sites.

The minutia is actually quite important sometimes and leads to a very different game.
 

Beoric

8, 8, I forget what is for
Nah. That picture is in the PHB. He's wearing plate mail. IIRC full and field plate got mentioned in the DMG but became more of a thing with UA.
Full and field plate are what is commonly thought of now as plate armor. Plate mail is a reference to armor from the intermediate period between mail and plate, when it was essentially chainmail with plates strapped on top of it (i.e. plate over mail). This is why it is so bulky and slow compared to articulated plate armor. You can see the difference clearly from the image of plate mail in the DM's Adventure Log:

DM Adventure Log Armor DM 18910796._SY540_.jpg
 
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