Best OSR System

[squeen]

Would you say a Bazaar of the...Bizarre?

Was Leiber's 1963 story the first to do this?

I personally got it originally (and comically) through Robert Lynn Asprin's "Another Fine Myth" (1978) and really enjoyed his treatment. I remember it was an impulse buy in the local book shop when it first came out. Honestly, those first four "Myth Adventures" books were solid...but I haven't reread them since my teenage years...so who knows if they still hold water. In many ways, they felt very Hitchhikers Guide-ish. The one where they stopped the invading army (second book?), was always my favorite. I stole a dimension-hopping Troll NPC from there for my current campaign.

The later books (5+) beat the formula to death in a very ugly way.

EDIT: Thinking about these some more---very ripe for Disney-ification in the cinema.

Back on track --- the inter-dimensional bazaar is a classic trope that still works for me. Like Bryce's "something behind the waterfall".

But that's probably something a frognard would say. (Not terribly metal. Sorry.)

 

[grodog]

I might even buy that!

It was kicked off in part from the K&KA thread at https://knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16810 which happened to align with the Postfest topic (Greyhawk Underdark), and my work on D1-3 prep (also on K&KA).

Allan.

 

[The1True]

I think they would actually make some sense in Planescape --- a baazar at the dimensional crossroads, so to speak.
Elsewhere, probably less so. Thanks.

Didn't Sigil kind of stem from one of Gygax's Gord stories about a magic shoppe at the center of the multiverse (in this case reached through a secret door in an alleyway in the City of Greyhawk)?

 

[squeen]

Didn't Sigil kind of stem from one of Gygax's Gord stories about a magic shoppe at the center of the multiverse (in this case reached through a secret door in an alleyway in the City of Greyhawk)?

Trent has a post about that place, Odd Alley, here:

Facts about Odd Alley and Weird Way

1980s pop-culture fantasy science fiction TV movies games D&D AD&D Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 1st edition RPG Gary Gygax TSR Greyhawk

mystical-trash-heap.blogspot.com

 

[Evard's Small Tentacle]

I just picked up Slater's Blood and Treasure D&D retro clone and like it lots upon first glance. Seems to preserve the stuff i like and add some fun variations and expansion on stronghold stuff.

 

[Osrnoob]

It feels very much like a 2e sorta retroclone. ADnD better explainedition with crunch options.

Stater does such good work, dude is a saint.

Bryces comments of hex crawls are great I hope to see the interconnected nature, NPC sheet and flowchart next Nod

 

[TerribleSorcery]

Has any OSR system done anything worth paying money for in the last decade? Way back when it was worth buying Labyrinth Lord, S&W, OSRIC or whatever because the originals were out of print and there were all those legal issues to work around.

Today things are different. When I hear that someone has yet another version of B/X but "better organized" I just laugh. Has anyone advanced an argument for OSE other than this? Because I haven't heard it. How easy to read does the simple version of the game for kids have to be, especially considering AD&D is totally playable by a somewhat smart teenager? Can someone give me a justification that isn't Must Consume Product? Sometimes I know how Kent feels.

 

[squeen]

Preach it brother!

(not mention S&W and OSRIC are/were always 100% free for digital)

As Paul Simon sang, "Every generation throws a hero up the pop charts."

 

[TerribleSorcery]

Preach it brother!

(not mention S&W and OSRIC are/were always 100% free for digital)

As Paul Simon sang, "Every generation throws a hero up the pop charts."

LL too, you can get art-free versions on the Goblinoid website.

 

[PrinceofNothing]

Has any OSR system done anything worth paying money for in the last decade? Way back when it was worth buying Labyrinth Lord, S&W, OSRIC or whatever because the originals were out of print and there were all those legal issues to work around.

ACKS probably. As a tarted up B/X with a fixed proficiency system it is adequate, its alternate raise dead complication rules are terrific, combat is tight, but its the economic system that underlies the whole thing that just works beautifully. It expands the framework in a direction that needed a systematic approach and it makes sandboxing that much sweeter. I have a level 6 fighter and a level 6 magic user.

 

[TerribleSorcery]

... but its the economic system that underlies the whole thing that just works beautifully. It expands the framework in a direction that needed a systematic approach and it makes sandboxing that much sweeter. I have a level 6 fighter and a level 6 magic user.

A good economic/domain system is something that's been badly needed for years in D&D, so that might be worth the price of admission. Concocting that stuff myself has never worked out very well.

 

[PrinceofNothing]

A good economic/domain system is something that's been badly needed for years in D&D, so that might be worth the price of admission. Concocting that stuff myself has never worked out very well.

I think the Core rules are free so you can always check them out. It's really very tight. A bit uninspiring on the face of it, you won't find any fancy layout or fonts there, but very good.

 

[Malrex]

Has any OSR system done anything worth paying money for in the last decade? Way back when it was worth buying Labyrinth Lord, S&W, OSRIC or whatever because the originals were out of print and there were all those legal issues to work around.

Today things are different. When I hear that someone has yet another version of B/X but "better organized" I just laugh. Has anyone advanced an argument for OSE other than this? Because I haven't heard it. How easy to read does the simple version of the game for kids have to be, especially considering AD&D is totally playable by a somewhat smart teenager? Can someone give me a justification that isn't Must Consume Product? Sometimes I know how Kent feels.

I agree with you for the most part, but from a publisher perspective:

After delving into OSE for a conversion, I believe there IS value in organization. It's not just how easy it is to read or understand, but also how quickly one can look up rules during the game, scan it, and keep playing smoothly. According to Bryce, it's pretty important to be able to scan an adventure while at the table...why isn't it valuable to have that component for a ruleset as well?

Publishing adventures for OSE are way less of a headache for me as I can find specific rulings quickly and efficiently and move on with my ideas. That's just my own experience/comparison of writing modules for the different retroclones. Surprisingly, I don't regret spending money on OSE even though all the retroclones to me are just regurgitated information (except DCC had a bunch of new ideas). The presentation feels 'new' and useful as hell--like a big dungeon screen...and I've easily read more of OSE than say LL or OSRIC and not on purpose---it was just easy to do while looking up rulings (is there a list of differences between LL and OSRIC out of curiosity?)

There is also support for publishers with OSE--they provide a style guide which I haven't really seen from other rulesets. Players probably wouldn't find that valuable, but I found it very refreshing to have some support and direction for adventure presentation--a small thing, but it motivated me to want to write for that particular system. Best rule system though? nahh, I'll stick with the original 2e/1e.

I agree with you that economic/domain rules or something new would be more interesting for new retro-clones.

 

[squeen]

ACKS Domains at War impressed me too. Very much. As a DM I really liked what it revealed about armies. I paid the price for the print edition and was happy to do so. It has two version Domain Play Mode (strategy and resources), and Mass Combat Action (with PC & spells).

That said...my group didn't like playing it...AND I didn't like having to converting (AD&D) to it --- so I am still looking for a better beast for mass combat. Something accurate AD&D, but also fast for the players.

LL is a modified B/X-ish clone, right? Where as OSRIC is definitely is 1e.

 

[grodog]

(is there a list of differences between LL and OSRIC out of curiosity?)

I don’t know of one off the top of my head, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I’ve definitely read such lists for AD&D vs. OSRIC, and having a list for each platform in one place might be nice.

There is also support for publishers with OSE--they provide a style guide which I haven't really seen from other rulesets.

I’ve worked up a few style guides for AD&D and OSRIC publishers, hadn’t thought about making them generally-available via the OSRIC sites. I’ll add it to the To Do list.

I agree with you that economic/domain rules or something new would be more interesting for new retro-clones.

I haven’t looked at the ACKS rules for a long time; what stood out as particularly useful?

Allan.

 

[robertsconley]

Has any OSR system done anything worth paying money for in the last decade? Way back when it was worth buying Labyrinth Lord, S&W, OSRIC or whatever because the originals were out of print and there were all those legal issues to work around.

Today things are different. When I hear that someone has yet another version of B/X but "better organized" I just laugh. Has anyone advanced an argument for OSE other than this? Because I haven't heard it. How easy to read does the simple version of the game for kids have to be, especially considering AD&D is totally playable by a somewhat smart teenager? Can someone give me a justification that isn't Must Consume Product? Sometimes I know how Kent feels.

Well you can download it for free and see what the hoopla is about.

Old-School Essentials Basic Rules

Old-School Essentials is an award-winning role-playing game of fantastic adventure, monsters, and magic. Players delve into forbidden crypts and forsaken ruins, explore haunted forests and perilous mountain ranges, sail the high seas in search of lost lands, recover fabulous treasures and...

necroticgnome.com

Having used the product line as a player, all I can say that it works as a better reference than the original (which I have) when you are trying to use the books. Similar to how some people like looking up stuff in OSRIC compared to the original AD&D manuals.

 

[robertsconley]

Has any OSR system done anything worth paying money for in the last decade? Way back when it was worth buying Labyrinth Lord, S&W, OSRIC or whatever because the originals were out of print and there were all those legal issues to work around.

As for the general issue, OSE is the only "clone" set of rules I seen release recently that got any traction. Everything else including my own Majestic Fantasy RPG reflect a particular vision of the author implemented using classic editions mechanics.

I would have been happy to continue to release Swords & Wizardry supplements for the rules stuff I do and keep my focus 100% on adventures and setting. But it hard to sell stuff physically (stores and cons) without having an accompanying rulebook. While the Swords & Wizardry book is open content the book itself is not free to cope with its art and cover. The math to buy copies doesn't work out. And distribution is not wide spread enough for stores. Hence I am publishing my own take. But given my original focus, I am keeping it highly compatible with Swords & Wizardry.

 

[PrinceofNothing]

I haven’t looked at the ACKS rules for a long time; what stood out as particularly useful?

Market classes, alternate death threshold rules, alternate ressurection complications, integrated rules for using monster parts to craft magic items, expanded rules for followers and hirelings, the proficiency system is good to the point where I'd say it sort of 'fixed' the one started in 2e and GAZ1 and all the advanced Magical Rituals stuff is cool too.

Can someone give me a justification that isn't Must Consume Product?

But...but...but if we do not Consume Product how can we Get Excited For Next Product To Consume?

 

[robertsconley]

A good economic/domain system is something that's been badly needed for years in D&D, so that might be worth the price of admission. Concocting that stuff myself has never worked out very well.

The math behind the implementation is solid. I recommend picking up Axioms #3 if you want to read some of the details of why it works the way it does. And it straight forward enough (and open content) that you can develop your own take, which I did for my Majestic Fantasy stuff.