Post Mortem & Results
- Thread starter The1True
- Start date
The1True
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
I've talked this up so much at this point that it invites disaster, but here's the meat from @Grützi 's original series of posts over at GTC. Basically, he lays out what initially appears to be an extremely complicated nested encounter system, but if you follow along to the end, you'll see that it's not actually that crazy, is easily scalable and offers the potential for a great deal of nuance in a dynamic encounter system. You'll notice in my hexcrawl notes I left space to keep track of faction activity in every hex (as well as a starting value for various factions' influence in the area) as well as a few hexes called 'Hunting Grounds' where the level of threat goes up and 'Difficult' where hazards are always encountered. We never got around to building the tables for the wider Wastes, but I believe this is an ambitious start! Anyway, I'd love to hear what people think/open this up to refinement and I'd love to see it escape our deep dark echo chamber to see some wider use.
This Random encounter system has 4 main parts/goals
1. Random encounter generation for our hexcrawl
2. A subsystem to modify the random encounters
3. Faction interference resolution in said random encounters
4. Introducing a subsystem to model faction expansion in the wasteland.
These four parts serve to make the whole thing feel alive and interesting, while providing content that goes beyond a mere d10 encounter table.
Random encounter generation
For random encounter genration we use a pretty simple system, that gets modified by a few factors.
Roll a defined threat die, then modify it by a few factors ... if the result is 6+ you get an encounter.
As ease of use is a big factor we want to give the DM as much information as possible in as few words as possible. For this I propose we use random encounter bars like this:
(We'll make it look cooler than my visio drawing of course
)
Threat Dice
Each hex as a general threat level associated with it, which is represented by a threat die. The bigger the die, the bigger the general threat inside the hex is gonna be.
1d6 is the baseline, going up through d8 to d10 to d12.
Check frequency
The baseline will be 4 checks per 24 hours. 2 checks during daylight, 2 at night
In some hexes you'll have to check fewer or more times for random encounters.
So the number benath the clock icon inside the random encounter bar will show you how many times you should check per 24 hours. If the number is uneven or you're not sure when to check exactly, try to distribute the checks evenly among the 24 hours.
If the hex is more dangerous by day or night favor that time when placing random encounter checks.
Day and night
Some hexes are more dangerous at night, some are while the sun is shining.
If a hex is more dangerous through a certain period this will be marked in the hex description by a sun or moon symbol.
If the group is in such a hex at the
specified time all Random encounter checks are made at +1
Faction Limits
These I will explain in a bit
They basically tell you when to involve the factions in random encounters.
So each Hex gets its own encounter bar that tells the DM everything he/she needs to know to check IF an encounter happens.
One thing that is not shown in the bar that nontheless also modifies the random encounter check is group behaviour
Group behavior
The behavior of the group also affects the possibility of a random encounter occuring.
If the group acts in one of the following ways adjust the random encounter check accordingly up to a maximum of +2.
Being loud +1
Being unobservant +1
Making widely visible fire +1
Leaving obvious marks of their passing +1
Generally speaking, every behavior that could draw unwanted attention to the party could modify the random encounter check by +1.
So with that you get a roll with a d6,d8,d10 or d12 modified by day/night and group behaviour to a max. of +3.
The following graph shows the probability of rolling a 6 or higher on the noted dice (with and without modifications)
With this I think we can roughly translate The1True's percentile chances into threat dice. So a normal hex has a d6 while a hunting ground hex with a 40% chance of an encounter has a d8. With the +1 a possible day/night modifier gives us ... I think we can define the base threat of a hex very nicely.
So now that we know HOW to check for a random encounter let's see how we find out which specific encounter happens
Biomes
We define 6 biomes:
Plains, Forest, Mountain, Desert, Wetlands and Broken Lands
The biome (or biomes) of a hex will be listed in its description. When in doubt, use your brain
Look at the biome of the hex and choose the appropriate random encounter table. If a hex has more than one biome choose the one that is most appropriate for the current situation. If a hex has the forest and the plains biome and the group is in the deep woods right now you'll obviously choose to roll on the forest encounter list
Biome encounter tables
Each Biome has a specific encounter table which is divided in:
NPC/Monster, Event, Hazard and Strange magic.
NPC/Monster should be clear, Event denotes something happening (not necessarily bad), a Hazard is a natural phenomenon that threatens the group (weather effects, earthquakes, mudslides,...) and Strange magic denotes a magical/unatural phenomenon that threathens the group.
Roll a d12 and a d6 to get random encounter.
The d6 roll defines which of the 4 type of encounter happens. I used a d6 so that I could "weight" the possible outcomes. So in the mountains you'll have a higher chance for a hazard than for the other types, while in broken lands you'll get much more strange magic stuff.
This helps us define the biomes even further and mixes things up a bit.
So with this part we've got a complex but highly rewarding random encounter system.
But let's take it a bit further shall we?
Random Encounter upgrades
So we've got a big pile of possible random encounters (48 per biome for 6 biomes gives us 288 possible encounters) ... but we've also got a big map that can be explored for a very long time.
To keep things interesting (and because The1True mentioned it
) we can include encounter upgrade tables.
A result of 6 means a random encounter happens. If the result of the random encounter check is higher than that, you might need to roll on one of the encounter upgrade tables as shown below.
Result Table to use
5 or lower No encounter
6 - 7 No upgrade
8 - 9 Easy upgrade table
10 - 11 Moderate upgrade table
12 or higher Deadly upgrade table
An upgrade is a special modification that changes parts of a random encounter (most often not for the
better
)
Roll on the indicated upgrade table and modify the random encounter accordingly-
This is not a clear cut process and you might need to get a bit creative here (This is a feature, not a bug
).
Imagine that the random encounter is your base food and the upgrade is the seasoning
So if you rolled up a group of mutants and roll a 3 on the easy upgrade table you'll get a distracted or sleeping group of mutants.
The upgrades basically add conditions to the random encounter ... thereby changing them and making the whole thing feel even more alive.
So now ... onward to the factions
This Random encounter system has 4 main parts/goals
1. Random encounter generation for our hexcrawl
2. A subsystem to modify the random encounters
3. Faction interference resolution in said random encounters
4. Introducing a subsystem to model faction expansion in the wasteland.
These four parts serve to make the whole thing feel alive and interesting, while providing content that goes beyond a mere d10 encounter table.
Random encounter generation
For random encounter genration we use a pretty simple system, that gets modified by a few factors.
Roll a defined threat die, then modify it by a few factors ... if the result is 6+ you get an encounter.
As ease of use is a big factor we want to give the DM as much information as possible in as few words as possible. For this I propose we use random encounter bars like this:
(We'll make it look cooler than my visio drawing of course
Threat Dice
Each hex as a general threat level associated with it, which is represented by a threat die. The bigger the die, the bigger the general threat inside the hex is gonna be.
1d6 is the baseline, going up through d8 to d10 to d12.
Check frequency
The baseline will be 4 checks per 24 hours. 2 checks during daylight, 2 at night
In some hexes you'll have to check fewer or more times for random encounters.
So the number benath the clock icon inside the random encounter bar will show you how many times you should check per 24 hours. If the number is uneven or you're not sure when to check exactly, try to distribute the checks evenly among the 24 hours.
If the hex is more dangerous by day or night favor that time when placing random encounter checks.
Day and night
Some hexes are more dangerous at night, some are while the sun is shining.
If a hex is more dangerous through a certain period this will be marked in the hex description by a sun or moon symbol.
If the group is in such a hex at the
specified time all Random encounter checks are made at +1
Faction Limits
These I will explain in a bit
So each Hex gets its own encounter bar that tells the DM everything he/she needs to know to check IF an encounter happens.
One thing that is not shown in the bar that nontheless also modifies the random encounter check is group behaviour
Group behavior
The behavior of the group also affects the possibility of a random encounter occuring.
If the group acts in one of the following ways adjust the random encounter check accordingly up to a maximum of +2.
Being loud +1
Being unobservant +1
Making widely visible fire +1
Leaving obvious marks of their passing +1
Generally speaking, every behavior that could draw unwanted attention to the party could modify the random encounter check by +1.
So with that you get a roll with a d6,d8,d10 or d12 modified by day/night and group behaviour to a max. of +3.
The following graph shows the probability of rolling a 6 or higher on the noted dice (with and without modifications)
With this I think we can roughly translate The1True's percentile chances into threat dice. So a normal hex has a d6 while a hunting ground hex with a 40% chance of an encounter has a d8. With the +1 a possible day/night modifier gives us ... I think we can define the base threat of a hex very nicely.
So now that we know HOW to check for a random encounter let's see how we find out which specific encounter happens
Biomes
We define 6 biomes:
Plains, Forest, Mountain, Desert, Wetlands and Broken Lands
The biome (or biomes) of a hex will be listed in its description. When in doubt, use your brain
Look at the biome of the hex and choose the appropriate random encounter table. If a hex has more than one biome choose the one that is most appropriate for the current situation. If a hex has the forest and the plains biome and the group is in the deep woods right now you'll obviously choose to roll on the forest encounter list
Biome encounter tables
Each Biome has a specific encounter table which is divided in:
NPC/Monster, Event, Hazard and Strange magic.
NPC/Monster should be clear, Event denotes something happening (not necessarily bad), a Hazard is a natural phenomenon that threatens the group (weather effects, earthquakes, mudslides,...) and Strange magic denotes a magical/unatural phenomenon that threathens the group.
Roll a d12 and a d6 to get random encounter.
The d6 roll defines which of the 4 type of encounter happens. I used a d6 so that I could "weight" the possible outcomes. So in the mountains you'll have a higher chance for a hazard than for the other types, while in broken lands you'll get much more strange magic stuff.
This helps us define the biomes even further and mixes things up a bit.
So with this part we've got a complex but highly rewarding random encounter system.
But let's take it a bit further shall we?
Random Encounter upgrades
So we've got a big pile of possible random encounters (48 per biome for 6 biomes gives us 288 possible encounters) ... but we've also got a big map that can be explored for a very long time.
To keep things interesting (and because The1True mentioned it
A result of 6 means a random encounter happens. If the result of the random encounter check is higher than that, you might need to roll on one of the encounter upgrade tables as shown below.
Result Table to use
5 or lower No encounter
6 - 7 No upgrade
8 - 9 Easy upgrade table
10 - 11 Moderate upgrade table
12 or higher Deadly upgrade table
An upgrade is a special modification that changes parts of a random encounter (most often not for the
better
Roll on the indicated upgrade table and modify the random encounter accordingly-
This is not a clear cut process and you might need to get a bit creative here (This is a feature, not a bug
Imagine that the random encounter is your base food and the upgrade is the seasoning
So if you rolled up a group of mutants and roll a 3 on the easy upgrade table you'll get a distracted or sleeping group of mutants.
The upgrades basically add conditions to the random encounter ... thereby changing them and making the whole thing feel even more alive.
So now ... onward to the factions
The1True
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Faction interference
The encounters generated thus far ignore the factions ... they are a nature vs. man type thing. Monsters and random factionless npcs, hazards, events and other, stranger stuff.
But we've got a few factions that are pocking around in these parts and we want them to influence the random encounters.
Each faction has something called the faction escalation value (FEV). Each factions FEV starts at 0 and goes up or down with time and according to player actions (and the actions of other factions).
I can imaine the FEV of every faction rising by one each month for example. We need to define what exactly changes the FEV and in what way.
The Random encounter bar for each hex lists the faction limits for this hex.
The first limit (bolded) tells you when this faction begins interferring with random encounters in this hex ... the other three limits are important for faction expansion ( more on that in a bit)
When a factions FEV his equal or higher than this factions first limit in the currently traveled hex, any random encounter rolled up in this hex is further modified by the factions interference table.
First you check how the interference affects the random encounter
No interference: This time the faction doesn't change the random encounter
Only faction: the faction replaces the random encounter
Faction has encounter: The random encounter happens to the faction, then the group arrives
Combine: Mix the random encounter and the faction interference up and create anew encounter from this.
Then we'll look at the faction specific interference tables:
And roll the dice.
Subject tells us what the group will encounter. Status can be rolled for inspiration or when the previous roll was a 3 or 4 (factionhas encounter or combine) to help the DM quickly set the scene.
Every faction would get its own table which would be "activated" when that factions FEV is equal or higher than the currently travelled hexes limit for that faction.
And the last part
Now that we have a way for factions to mingle with the random encounters we can go one step further and include a subsystem that helps us (and the DM) to model faction expansion into the wasteland.
The first faction limit is clear by now ... the second limit tells us when a faction will set up a camp in a hex.
The third limit sees the camp expanded and fortified ..and with the fourth limit hit, the faction is now strong enough to start an undertaking/a project in this hex.
So with a factions rising FEV will they also expand and change the wasteland in a certain way.
The encounters generated thus far ignore the factions ... they are a nature vs. man type thing. Monsters and random factionless npcs, hazards, events and other, stranger stuff.
But we've got a few factions that are pocking around in these parts and we want them to influence the random encounters.
Each faction has something called the faction escalation value (FEV). Each factions FEV starts at 0 and goes up or down with time and according to player actions (and the actions of other factions).
I can imaine the FEV of every faction rising by one each month for example. We need to define what exactly changes the FEV and in what way.
The Random encounter bar for each hex lists the faction limits for this hex.
The first limit (bolded) tells you when this faction begins interferring with random encounters in this hex ... the other three limits are important for faction expansion ( more on that in a bit)
When a factions FEV his equal or higher than this factions first limit in the currently traveled hex, any random encounter rolled up in this hex is further modified by the factions interference table.
First you check how the interference affects the random encounter
No interference: This time the faction doesn't change the random encounter
Only faction: the faction replaces the random encounter
Faction has encounter: The random encounter happens to the faction, then the group arrives
Combine: Mix the random encounter and the faction interference up and create anew encounter from this.
Then we'll look at the faction specific interference tables:
And roll the dice.
Subject tells us what the group will encounter. Status can be rolled for inspiration or when the previous roll was a 3 or 4 (factionhas encounter or combine) to help the DM quickly set the scene.
Every faction would get its own table which would be "activated" when that factions FEV is equal or higher than the currently travelled hexes limit for that faction.
And the last part
Now that we have a way for factions to mingle with the random encounters we can go one step further and include a subsystem that helps us (and the DM) to model faction expansion into the wasteland.
The first faction limit is clear by now ... the second limit tells us when a faction will set up a camp in a hex.
The third limit sees the camp expanded and fortified ..and with the fourth limit hit, the faction is now strong enough to start an undertaking/a project in this hex.
So with a factions rising FEV will they also expand and change the wasteland in a certain way.
The1True
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Setting up camp
When a factionsets up a camp simply roll up the type of campon this factions random camp table. This will tell you who is in the camp and what purpose the camp serves.
Camp fortification
When a camp gets fortified you'll consult the fortification tables to determine which buildings get added and in which way the camp grows.
We could also include a random camp building table. Things like a tavern, a smith, a hunter ...and so on could be on it. Everytime a camp gets fortified the DM would roll twice on that table to add something extra to the camp.
As I imagine it, the step from camp to fortified camp changes the simple camp into sort of a little hamlet. So when a camp grows that much theres always handymen, mercenaries, fortune seeckers and so on that come with it.
Faction undertakings
When the last limit is hit, the faction starts a project in this hex.
No table this time ... but you get the idea. Create a random table, let the DM roll on it to see what that faction is up to in the hex.
The Bloodrock guys could start an excavation or some sort of magical research ... the Grippli could organize a great hunt or a sacrifice to some obscure deity.
With this players could interact with the factions more and it makes them seem more alive ... the factions do something in the wastelands.
So far from my side ... nothing of this is set in stone ... tell me what you think about it
Design notes
A few words about intention and such stuff.
As we decide what the faction limits are and whee we put them I think this givs us a great deal of control about how the factions "spread" into the wasteland.
And I know that this seems overly complex ... but I think with a well designed and placed encounter bar and a good explanation that this system could really enrich our project.
An example:
(20.03) Treasure Barge
Mountain (hills), Wetlands (river, lake)
Hills: Loamy, Firm Footing, High (600'), Steep (1/2 Mv).
River: Island, Wreck, Good Viz (12'), Open Water (10-50').
Island: Rich Island 1600x5800', Hill (Gravelly, Treacherous Footing (1/2 Mv), Tall (1900'), Steep (1/2 Mv)), Wetland (Muddy Lakes and Flats) and a Sheltered Cove.
Wreck: A very old merchant barge lies half-sunk in the cove. It's cargo has long since been lost or rotted, but a valuable treasure (...) remains in a hidden compartment (DC 26 Search/Spot) in the submerged front section of the barge.
In the above example you would roll a d8 twice per 24 hours and modify it +1 when it's night.
Arnlaugs guys would come in quick, build a camp and fortify it ... and thats it.
The BEG would come in nearly as quick but they'll go all the way to start a project.
The guys from Havensparr would arrive late and build a camp eventually.
And the local Grippli will take a peek from time to time and nothing more.
So if you know this system you can see at one glance how the hex will be affected by the factions
Last but not least: This whole system is primarily for the wasteland exploration. All specific locations (like the seed vault) would still get their own random tables. And if we want to exclude specific hexes (like the starting settlements) we could do it easily.
When a factionsets up a camp simply roll up the type of campon this factions random camp table. This will tell you who is in the camp and what purpose the camp serves.
Camp fortification
When a camp gets fortified you'll consult the fortification tables to determine which buildings get added and in which way the camp grows.
We could also include a random camp building table. Things like a tavern, a smith, a hunter ...and so on could be on it. Everytime a camp gets fortified the DM would roll twice on that table to add something extra to the camp.
As I imagine it, the step from camp to fortified camp changes the simple camp into sort of a little hamlet. So when a camp grows that much theres always handymen, mercenaries, fortune seeckers and so on that come with it.
Faction undertakings
When the last limit is hit, the faction starts a project in this hex.
No table this time ... but you get the idea. Create a random table, let the DM roll on it to see what that faction is up to in the hex.
The Bloodrock guys could start an excavation or some sort of magical research ... the Grippli could organize a great hunt or a sacrifice to some obscure deity.
With this players could interact with the factions more and it makes them seem more alive ... the factions do something in the wastelands.
So far from my side ... nothing of this is set in stone ... tell me what you think about it
Design notes
A few words about intention and such stuff.
As we decide what the faction limits are and whee we put them I think this givs us a great deal of control about how the factions "spread" into the wasteland.
And I know that this seems overly complex ... but I think with a well designed and placed encounter bar and a good explanation that this system could really enrich our project.
An example:
(20.03) Treasure Barge
Mountain (hills), Wetlands (river, lake)
Hills: Loamy, Firm Footing, High (600'), Steep (1/2 Mv).
River: Island, Wreck, Good Viz (12'), Open Water (10-50').
Island: Rich Island 1600x5800', Hill (Gravelly, Treacherous Footing (1/2 Mv), Tall (1900'), Steep (1/2 Mv)), Wetland (Muddy Lakes and Flats) and a Sheltered Cove.
Wreck: A very old merchant barge lies half-sunk in the cove. It's cargo has long since been lost or rotted, but a valuable treasure (...) remains in a hidden compartment (DC 26 Search/Spot) in the submerged front section of the barge.
In the above example you would roll a d8 twice per 24 hours and modify it +1 when it's night.
Arnlaugs guys would come in quick, build a camp and fortify it ... and thats it.
The BEG would come in nearly as quick but they'll go all the way to start a project.
The guys from Havensparr would arrive late and build a camp eventually.
And the local Grippli will take a peek from time to time and nothing more.
So if you know this system you can see at one glance how the hex will be affected by the factions
Last but not least: This whole system is primarily for the wasteland exploration. All specific locations (like the seed vault) would still get their own random tables. And if we want to exclude specific hexes (like the starting settlements) we could do it easily.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
Seems like a lot for me to absorb at first blush. Very procedural. The faction stuff feels a bit "Risk" or "Catan" like.
I will ask a general "design methods" type of question @Grutzi --- What would it look like if you were forced to make it even simpler? What's the minimum that gives you the basic innovative mechanic?
Thanks for sharing it.
I will ask a general "design methods" type of question @Grutzi --- What would it look like if you were forced to make it even simpler? What's the minimum that gives you the basic innovative mechanic?
Thanks for sharing it.
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Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
Since this is a mod on existing procedures, I find it easier to understand the original text explanation to the specialized notation.
I am also not sure that a similar effect could not be achieved using existing mechanics. It may not be as nuanced, but I am not sure if that matters. These mechanics are not player facing other than the presentation of the final result. These are purely DM aids, and the degree to which a mechanic "aids" the DM is inversely proportional to how much extra work it is for the DM.
I am also not sure that a similar effect could not be achieved using existing mechanics. It may not be as nuanced, but I am not sure if that matters. These mechanics are not player facing other than the presentation of the final result. These are purely DM aids, and the degree to which a mechanic "aids" the DM is inversely proportional to how much extra work it is for the DM.
The1True
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
I agree with this.
I wish we had a table to provide as an example; we never got around to that unfortunately, but I'm pretty sure that despite the intimidating explanation, this can be condensed down to a set of nested tables only a couple of pages long. Definitely the full product with all the bells and whistles would be reserved for some Gazetteer of the Wastes that (let's face it) is never going to happen; but it's the kind of thing you put in your big world description so that DM's have a tool to create events that feed back into the central narrative rather than existing in isolation.
A more stripped down version would be employed in the hex-crawl portions of these mega-modules I've been doing. I just love that threat index combined with a faction index. Helping or hindering the factions as you crash around the Wastes murdering things and taking their stuff has quantifiable effects.
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
I actually had a much longer post where I tried to duplicate the effect using more traditional mechanics, but I deleted it because I wasn't entirely sure I had all the details of your system correct, and I was afraid it would degenerate into a discussion of minutiae and miss the point of the demonstration. Which was, tl;dr, you could put the factions on your regular encounter tables, and just have them behave differently according to their FEV.
The1True
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
You're suggesting just putting multiple entries in the 'description' portion of the table (or encounter descriptions below the table) for each faction and you pick the one that matches the FEV?
Malrex
So ... slow work day? Every day?
Summer Palace
Maps look good, but lettering may get confusing. I especially like the picture of the buildings in the top right.
Scenario—Hooks. Cross reference better. You may have already discussed the ‘why’ in the Dneva in Arnlaug’s Carcass or Castellan Montcolm—so either provide a: “See Area #4 in Arnlaug’s Carcass (or whatever), OR...a quick repeat summary. And/or make some random hooks to make this more modular—what if I just want to steal this adventure to throw in my own campaign?...provide some random hooks that may be used without your storyline thats going on.
A: Palace Environs—this feels jarring. I still dont have a clear picture why Im here due to the Scenario/Hooks above.
3. I went to H1c—good cross reference, but no stats?
2 and 4—any hints/foreshadow of what killed the creatures? Maybe a lost opportunity to increase tension.
Wandering Monsters--
I like the Condition column, but feels too simple. Id rather see: 1-2+1 Giant Stag Beetles—fighting each other over a spider corpse...rather than just Hungry.
#7 Gargantuan Fiendish Monstrous Centipede’s Condition is better, but what is its rival?
B-L Summer Palace
Window stats—I’m not really into the stats (must be different edition) BUT, I love that you make it apparent that they can be broken and entered.
ok...my personal opinion here...your set-up doesn’t work too well. It has the indents and attempts to make it easy to scan, but here is my argument:
Player info---what they can see
DM info—what is secret to the PCs
‘Ancient architecture. Weathered and crumbling.’--this is fine, a little dry for my tastes, but gets point across.
1st floor windows, 2nd and 3rd windows, etc.--this is good info, BUT it should be lower in description in my opinion. This is DM info.
Walls are masonry...stories are 10’ high---this could be player info or DM info.
Roofs are crumbling, red tile----This is Player info..should go in first paragraph of area.
Stealth DC—this is DM info
When this happens...--DM info..careful of if/when scenariors--can open up endless doors of possibilities.
‘The Palace is managed for Tarcho by a tribe of Spider Grubbers’--this is Scenario info
Spider Grubbers are alert—this is DM info
Their guards ask the business, etc.--Are there guards present? This should be in first section for Player info.
Trespassers are met with force, etc.--this is DM info
Grubbers use Spider Climb—DM info—and good tactical stuff!
If dialog is opened---you just opened the door of if/when...do you plan to describe every if/when scenario? Notice your wording of the one up above--”Trespassers found inside the inner walls….” It’s stronger than “If dialog is opened”...Trespassers has no if/when….you could rephrase it by saying “Dialogue attempts lead to grubbers being bedeviled, etc. Hope this suggestion makes sense..
Everything else---holy man, salamander knights, etc.--this might be better in a rumor table or something.
So basically...you got indents which is helpful, but in my opinion, in order to make this easier on the DM—you need to put most of the info into the Player Info section (the first few sentences). This is rough, but something like this:
Ancient architecture, weathered and crumbling concrete walls. One to three story buildings with glazed windows, barred on first floor and shuttered on 2nd and 3rd stories. The cracked walls hold aloft a crumbling roof of red tile.
Windows DC
Walls Climb DC
Roofs—stealth DC...blah blah blah
(imagine if windows, walls, and roofs were bolded in the character info and DM info how easy it would be to locate if a Player asked a question)
Palace is managed by Tarcho---this should all be in the scenario or GM notes before describing the areas of the palace.
‘If dialog is opened’---this could all be part of additional hooks or something…..and onward to a rumor table. i.e. DM’s Notes: Conversing with spider grubbers may reveal these rumors:
1. there is a big ass centipede
2. They allow PCs to run around if they promise to kill it. They give a signet ring to show their loyalty and allow them to explore unmolested.
3. Don’t go near the tree in the temple! (Ettercap druid, see Area #??)
4. A brave, stout man (or whatever describes Proctor Lund) led a group of Salamander Knights, etc….
The map….and B, 1, and 2. Maybe to make it more clear, you add B, B-1, B-2
For B-1 and B-2—I feel like it could be combined. Explain the gate, and beyond PCs see some giant stag beetles eating some corpses, etc…..
Any kind of combat draws the Giant Flies? How about a 65% chance they flies come and enter combat withing 1d4+1 rounds or something.
Same advice for the rest of the sections…
E. Atrium
1. Gates and foyer doors have been hurriedly repaired, etc.--don’t tell, show….Boards have been nailed haphazardly to the doors (or something).
E 2. “The feeling of being watched”--again, don’t tell, show. This is always a hard one for me to describe...but maybe: The breeze blows, etc….branches from a bush shudder suddenly, as if someone had been there and moved position…..or the light glints off an eye in the bushes, but is no longer there…..that’s horrible, but something like that.
F---good cross reference (Omalwera (J4—once finalized, maybe a page number or a pdf link))..
J—3. Servants shrine to Zirax the small god of cabbage—again, show, don’t tell. Maybe the shine is a giant cabbage. Maybe bards have a chance to know what god it is...etc.
Moving Forward---I think this all should be in the beginning DM notes or scenario. Summarize the entire adventure in a few short sentences/paragraphs so the DM knows whats up. This also could beef up hooks, rewards, and/or rumors. This is important—otherwise it feels very jarring and sudden...and I have to hunt for info for the full picture of whats going on instead of just having a short summary in the very beginning.
Monster Roster—cool
“The first area I detailed was a roman-style villa called the Sommer Palace. This is meant to be run as a social interaction challenge or a commando raid.”
This should be in the DM Summary in the very beginning. Describe each way---(Dialogue may lead to these rumors and/or allowing PCs to explore if they promise to kill centipede, etc.)...or Commando raid—the guards patrol these specific areas, blah blah, every 3 turns….windows can be broken, etc.
I skimmed over most of the other descriptions but focused on the first one to give an example. Let me know if questions or need further clarification. And remember this is just my opinion.
Maps look good, but lettering may get confusing. I especially like the picture of the buildings in the top right.
Scenario—Hooks. Cross reference better. You may have already discussed the ‘why’ in the Dneva in Arnlaug’s Carcass or Castellan Montcolm—so either provide a: “See Area #4 in Arnlaug’s Carcass (or whatever), OR...a quick repeat summary. And/or make some random hooks to make this more modular—what if I just want to steal this adventure to throw in my own campaign?...provide some random hooks that may be used without your storyline thats going on.
A: Palace Environs—this feels jarring. I still dont have a clear picture why Im here due to the Scenario/Hooks above.
3. I went to H1c—good cross reference, but no stats?
2 and 4—any hints/foreshadow of what killed the creatures? Maybe a lost opportunity to increase tension.
Wandering Monsters--
I like the Condition column, but feels too simple. Id rather see: 1-2+1 Giant Stag Beetles—fighting each other over a spider corpse...rather than just Hungry.
#7 Gargantuan Fiendish Monstrous Centipede’s Condition is better, but what is its rival?
B-L Summer Palace
Window stats—I’m not really into the stats (must be different edition) BUT, I love that you make it apparent that they can be broken and entered.
ok...my personal opinion here...your set-up doesn’t work too well. It has the indents and attempts to make it easy to scan, but here is my argument:
Player info---what they can see
DM info—what is secret to the PCs
‘Ancient architecture. Weathered and crumbling.’--this is fine, a little dry for my tastes, but gets point across.
1st floor windows, 2nd and 3rd windows, etc.--this is good info, BUT it should be lower in description in my opinion. This is DM info.
Walls are masonry...stories are 10’ high---this could be player info or DM info.
Roofs are crumbling, red tile----This is Player info..should go in first paragraph of area.
Stealth DC—this is DM info
When this happens...--DM info..careful of if/when scenariors--can open up endless doors of possibilities.
‘The Palace is managed for Tarcho by a tribe of Spider Grubbers’--this is Scenario info
Spider Grubbers are alert—this is DM info
Their guards ask the business, etc.--Are there guards present? This should be in first section for Player info.
Trespassers are met with force, etc.--this is DM info
Grubbers use Spider Climb—DM info—and good tactical stuff!
If dialog is opened---you just opened the door of if/when...do you plan to describe every if/when scenario? Notice your wording of the one up above--”Trespassers found inside the inner walls….” It’s stronger than “If dialog is opened”...Trespassers has no if/when….you could rephrase it by saying “Dialogue attempts lead to grubbers being bedeviled, etc. Hope this suggestion makes sense..
Everything else---holy man, salamander knights, etc.--this might be better in a rumor table or something.
So basically...you got indents which is helpful, but in my opinion, in order to make this easier on the DM—you need to put most of the info into the Player Info section (the first few sentences). This is rough, but something like this:
Ancient architecture, weathered and crumbling concrete walls. One to three story buildings with glazed windows, barred on first floor and shuttered on 2nd and 3rd stories. The cracked walls hold aloft a crumbling roof of red tile.
Windows DC
Walls Climb DC
Roofs—stealth DC...blah blah blah
(imagine if windows, walls, and roofs were bolded in the character info and DM info how easy it would be to locate if a Player asked a question)
Palace is managed by Tarcho---this should all be in the scenario or GM notes before describing the areas of the palace.
‘If dialog is opened’---this could all be part of additional hooks or something…..and onward to a rumor table. i.e. DM’s Notes: Conversing with spider grubbers may reveal these rumors:
1. there is a big ass centipede
2. They allow PCs to run around if they promise to kill it. They give a signet ring to show their loyalty and allow them to explore unmolested.
3. Don’t go near the tree in the temple! (Ettercap druid, see Area #??)
4. A brave, stout man (or whatever describes Proctor Lund) led a group of Salamander Knights, etc….
The map….and B, 1, and 2. Maybe to make it more clear, you add B, B-1, B-2
For B-1 and B-2—I feel like it could be combined. Explain the gate, and beyond PCs see some giant stag beetles eating some corpses, etc…..
Any kind of combat draws the Giant Flies? How about a 65% chance they flies come and enter combat withing 1d4+1 rounds or something.
Same advice for the rest of the sections…
E. Atrium
1. Gates and foyer doors have been hurriedly repaired, etc.--don’t tell, show….Boards have been nailed haphazardly to the doors (or something).
E 2. “The feeling of being watched”--again, don’t tell, show. This is always a hard one for me to describe...but maybe: The breeze blows, etc….branches from a bush shudder suddenly, as if someone had been there and moved position…..or the light glints off an eye in the bushes, but is no longer there…..that’s horrible, but something like that.
F---good cross reference (Omalwera (J4—once finalized, maybe a page number or a pdf link))..
J—3. Servants shrine to Zirax the small god of cabbage—again, show, don’t tell. Maybe the shine is a giant cabbage. Maybe bards have a chance to know what god it is...etc.
Moving Forward---I think this all should be in the beginning DM notes or scenario. Summarize the entire adventure in a few short sentences/paragraphs so the DM knows whats up. This also could beef up hooks, rewards, and/or rumors. This is important—otherwise it feels very jarring and sudden...and I have to hunt for info for the full picture of whats going on instead of just having a short summary in the very beginning.
Monster Roster—cool
“The first area I detailed was a roman-style villa called the Sommer Palace. This is meant to be run as a social interaction challenge or a commando raid.”
This should be in the DM Summary in the very beginning. Describe each way---(Dialogue may lead to these rumors and/or allowing PCs to explore if they promise to kill centipede, etc.)...or Commando raid—the guards patrol these specific areas, blah blah, every 3 turns….windows can be broken, etc.
I skimmed over most of the other descriptions but focused on the first one to give an example. Let me know if questions or need further clarification. And remember this is just my opinion.
The1True
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Thanks man! This is some useful advice! Like I said, this was my first shot at it and at this point I still thought I could cram each scenario into a one or two-page dungeon format which is my excuse for the brevity. I have added a DM Summary at the top of the list of revisions!
I'm unclear how there could be rumours in this scenario. I guess if you choose to talk to the Gubbers they'll have things to say, but I'd almost rather they divulge a list of information based on PC skill rolls (or good Role Playing if you're doing it oldschool) rather than randomly rolling on a table that might have misleading or non-pertinent information.
I think I see what you're saying about my abuse of point-form. What I'm doing is prioritizing PC-facing information and then subbing to related DM information immediately below and this is creating a real mess of point-form sub-sub-sub entries. I believe you're suggesting I present the PC info and then the DM info with highlights or bold in the PC info indicating further info for the DM which should hopefully lead to the need for only one indent?
I wish, as well, that I could figure out how to reduce the size of my Tab indents in Word to only a couple of characters instead of these huge spaces...
This is the only one I'm going to argue. The feeling of being watched is a legitimate human sense which I believe falls fairly under Show rather than tell. Maybe the added DM information that guards hidden by the window in the Gubber building are watching the PC's, but they shouldn't be able to see the guards at this point. I know it's poor form to tell Players what they're feeling but I stand behind this as a reportable sensation rather than an emotion that adds to the creepiness of the empty courtyard.
I really appreciate the pointers man; they're all very useful. Thanks for your time! Hope you can stick around for what's up next!
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
That or a subtable, which could add a few nonstandard entries. "Pitched battle among all factions with FEV greater than n" or "Roll twice, faction with higher FEV is slaughtering faction with lower FEV" or "Roll twice (or three times, or whatever), factions with FEV lower than x area attempting peaceful negotiations, factions with FEV between x and y are verbally hostile, factions with FEV greater than y are attacking others".
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
How about "the hairs on the back of your neck stand up" or "you think you may have heard a noise" or "you thought you saw movement out of the corner of your eye, but there's nothing there" or "the patterns on the walls resemble eyes" or "you see the silhoutte of a man in the upper window"?
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
I have to agree with this, because every alternate description I come up with also resorts to describing a feeling or sensation. And I note that two of @squeen's examples fall back on telling you what you think.
I'm also not sure if people experience this phenomenon this the same way; for me personally, when I feel like I am being watched, I get a vague pressure on my back like an imagined touch, or the ghost of a breeze, and I feel (there it is again) like someone is behind me no matter where I stand. Sometimes I get a shiver. I'm not sure if that experience is universal.
I mean, all other description relates to one of the five senses, but when you are describing a sixth sense in D&D you are describing an actual sense. But we don't really have vocabulary for that, so you have to describing what you sense. The only fault I can find with describing the feeling of being watched is that its ubiquity lessens the impact. Not only is it a common phrase, but it could conceivably be used to describe the result of a perception check, which triggers a less creeped out and more practical response in players. So I think it is probably better to come up with a less common creepy sixth sense sensation.
Malrex
So ... slow work day? Every day?
Rumors:
I think divulging info if they are talked too is ok. Maybe number them.
Talking with the Grubbers reveals:
1. centipede stuff
2. holy man stuff
3. salamander knight stuff.
I guess when I was reading it, since I did not read the hex crawl (I'm not good with hex crawls) I mention rumors because what if the PCs needed to find the ettercap holy man to help them negate a special poison and they learn rumors about this holy man's location in some different hex that leads them to this hex, or that the PCs are looking for Proctor. The info above could be rumors or additional hooks BECAUSE it's pretty general information. The centipede is good info....the holy man is good info but it's somewhat general--maybe the grubbers know something more specific (be sure to bring a gift to the holy man first, or there is a trap near entrance). Salamander knights info is pretty general--but maybe the grubbers know that those knights left an item behind or something more specific. I guess I just saw that info as an opportunity to tie other hexes together or something.
I think the Tab/indent idea is good...just need to re-organize the info. Because I read 'ancient architecture, weathered and crumbling'...but then I felt like I would need to stall the players while I read all the rest, whereas reorganizing the info, the players can direct you on what they want to do based on the things they see which makes it easier to look up the info you need. Example:
Ancient architecture, weathered and crumbling concrete walls. One to three story buildings with glazed windows, barred on first floor and shuttered on 2nd and 3rd stories. The cracked walls hold aloft a crumbling roof of red tile. A few guards wander the premises.
(Below, I had these all tabbed out, but the preview is showing that they aren't tabbed...so each of these is tabbed. Dialogue part is tabbed even further under Guards).
Windows DC info
Walls Climb DC info
Roofs—stealth DC...blah blah blah
Guards---info
Dialogue info
1. centipede
2.holy man, etc.
Now if players say they want to break through the windows, I can immediately go to the bolded DM tab for windows and know that info...or if they want to climb to the room, I can go to the roof section, etc. Again, this is how I would do it, doesn't mean it's the correct way.
Feeling of being watched
I agree, this one is hard but I personally always try to avoid telling players how their characters feel. As a player, I know it's a turn off for me. With a DM just telling me I feel like I'm being watched, it doesn't add much stress to me.
But in your example, the players enter a atrium with a field with low bushes/grasses and each wall has arrow slits.
"The silence of this atrium is only disturbed by the breeze that blows through the grass and small shrubs. The atrium walls are riddled with arrow slits focused on every square inch of the atriums grassy entrance. Shadows move and flicker beyond the arrow slits, perhaps a trick of the sun?"
Still--not the best description...but for me as a player, this would give me a little more stress than just being told my character feels like they are being watched. Because as a player, the example triggers my imagination--let me freak myself out rather than being told I'm feeling freaked out.
Now I have it in my head there is something beyond those arrow slits...that there is no safe area within that atrium and now Im going to take full precautions....but what if there weren't actual guards there and the place was empty? All those precautions would of been for naught, because the players FEEL like they are being watched and not just told how they felt. My example provides some uncertainty with the DM offering a suggestion--perhaps just a trick of the sun (or moonlight if at night). But if a DM tells me I feel like Im being watched, then as a player, I don't really have that uncertainty where my imagination is exploding into different alternatives--rather, when just told how I feel, it triggers nothing and I just shrug off the warning.
The1True
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
You're maybe straying into read-aloud territory with this, but I grock what your saying and think I can work with it. I can create the paranoia of being watched without just telling it or conversely writing a long-winded paragraph. I'll take another stab at it, thanks!
Definitely there's been some disagreement on this forum, but I'm a fan of this layout. Different people parse information differently and if I could find a way to make everyone happy, I would, but in the meantime I should go with a style that I would personally find usable at the table. I mean, if I can't understand or imagine running my own writing how the hell can I expect anyone else to, right?
The1True
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Alright, time for this week's batch. Moving on from the Summer Palace, I started to experiment with mapping and interactivity.
Hell's Crack is an ancient refinery installation now haunted by the empty shell of the legendary hero Wamba and his bodyguard. It is reached by solving the Riddle of Wamba hinted at in several other of the sandbox scenarios. This dungeon is gated and cannot happen by accident. Inside I tried out a variation on the old levers puzzle. There are several configurations which can make things better or worse for the PC's in the installation, but none prevent further progress (which I think is key). I had a bitch of a time getting it all down in a clearly understandable format (and am not sure I succeeded) and unfortunately fell into the If/Then trap but am rationalizing that since it is a mechanical puzzle, a little digital language is acceptable? I would greatly appreciate any advice (other than 'scrap the whole thing')
The Cursed Briar is my most ambitious mapping project so far as I tried to accurately chart a labyrinth of platforms, ladders and rope bridges sprawling around the trunk of an enormous cursed thorn tree. I'm pretty happy with the writing on this and think the 'canopy crawl' included at the end adds a fun treasure hunt for the intrepid. But yeah, I tried the map two different ways and neither made me completely happy. Also, the OSR rankles at limitations to volition which occurs here in the form of deterrents to just flying up; I would like to point out that deterrents is all that they actually are. It's not impossible to fly up into the upper foliage, just dangerous (and not even that if done out of the range of the artillery).
Anyway, I'd love to hear what people think! One more after this, which I'm saving for next week.
Hell's Crack is an ancient refinery installation now haunted by the empty shell of the legendary hero Wamba and his bodyguard. It is reached by solving the Riddle of Wamba hinted at in several other of the sandbox scenarios. This dungeon is gated and cannot happen by accident. Inside I tried out a variation on the old levers puzzle. There are several configurations which can make things better or worse for the PC's in the installation, but none prevent further progress (which I think is key). I had a bitch of a time getting it all down in a clearly understandable format (and am not sure I succeeded) and unfortunately fell into the If/Then trap but am rationalizing that since it is a mechanical puzzle, a little digital language is acceptable? I would greatly appreciate any advice (other than 'scrap the whole thing')
The Cursed Briar is my most ambitious mapping project so far as I tried to accurately chart a labyrinth of platforms, ladders and rope bridges sprawling around the trunk of an enormous cursed thorn tree. I'm pretty happy with the writing on this and think the 'canopy crawl' included at the end adds a fun treasure hunt for the intrepid. But yeah, I tried the map two different ways and neither made me completely happy. Also, the OSR rankles at limitations to volition which occurs here in the form of deterrents to just flying up; I would like to point out that deterrents is all that they actually are. It's not impossible to fly up into the upper foliage, just dangerous (and not even that if done out of the range of the artillery).
Anyway, I'd love to hear what people think! One more after this, which I'm saving for next week.
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The1True
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Sorry, I didn't get around to purging the 3e crunch from these two (on the upside, there are some slightly more well-realized monster stats as a result). This is intermediate level, so DC's are roughly: 15 Easy; 20 Avg; 25 Hard; 26+ Very Hard.
And god help me, here's a flowchart for that lever puzzle in Hell's Crack. If you really needed it to make sense of the puzzle then I may have to go back to the drawing board/rip the whole thing out/include the flowchart (prettied up of course) in the final product.
the arrows from the three purple nodes on the right should be pointing the other direction... Solid lines indicate the current state, dotted lines indicate a changed state, solid red lines indicate major results.
And god help me, here's a flowchart for that lever puzzle in Hell's Crack. If you really needed it to make sense of the puzzle then I may have to go back to the drawing board/rip the whole thing out/include the flowchart (prettied up of course) in the final product.
the arrows from the three purple nodes on the right should be pointing the other direction... Solid lines indicate the current state, dotted lines indicate a changed state, solid red lines indicate major results.
The1True
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
For my final installment, I've got the Mutant Camp. Sitting at the centre of the Badawful is a stockade filled with mutants. Usually fierce cannibal warriors whose mutations offer advantages over the average human warrior, this mysterious affliction is slowing them down essentially making them Orcs for stat purposes (my twist on the 'why not just make the orcs brigands' question). There's a Thunderdome-style fighting pit, a scrapyard where trash is turned to wondrous treasure, a well guarded cave where the boss can make a last stand and a magical hut where the hideous witch is being held prisoner by an even more heinous interloper.
The scenario offers opportunities for interaction, infiltration or bloody massacre. There is a heavy prevalence of odd magical/mechanical items produced by the forge and the witch which the DM is welcome to modify/mitigate to their tastes. This is a roughly name-level scenario, so some of the rewards are geared towards the PC's starting strongholds or caravans of their own and possession of the Forge threatens substantial destabilization to the balance of power among the factions of the Wastes.
If anyone's got the time I would love to receive any love and abuse. Particularly in the case of the Witch's hut which was another attempt at an interactive challenge after the insanity that was the Refinery (which I would also really really really welcome advice on). I'm not good at the interactive stuff and I'm trying to move away from the Push-button skill-check approach which has obviously become a crutch for me. But in both the Refinery and the Hut I found myself resorting to a great deal of description and it's probably not the right approach. The Witch's Hut is also my most colourful mapping experiment as I tried to describe the weird interconnection of rooms and map the spiraling Oubliette of the Devourer.
Anyway, if you're holding off because you feel no words are better than hard words, you're doing me no favours. This is supposed to be a learning experience and I'm happy to be a case study of what went wrong!
