General Discussion
- Thread starter Beoric
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DangerousPuhson
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Whoa! The guy who can't change his mind doesn't change his mind. What a twist!
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
Since the last one, um, stimulated discussion, here is more food for thought: How Gandalf Proved Mightiest: Spiritual Power in Tolkien.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
Enjoyable post, and a nice interpretation. The subtly of Tolkiens writing proves time and again that LotR was a masterpiece. Jackson had huge success---it was the Millennial's Star Wars---but so often misses that sublty.
Rings of Power is a clear and obvious attempt to "Game of Throwns" Tolkien, but GoT is a vastly inferior work. "Vast" is actually an understatement.
Rings of Power is a clear and obvious attempt to "Game of Throwns" Tolkien, but GoT is a vastly inferior work. "Vast" is actually an understatement.
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
Okay, I see where this is coming from I think? A perceived false equivalency on my part? I did not mean to compare you to a sovereign citizen nutter @EOTB , so if that's the case, I apologize. Your comment made me think about the irrational and vicious hatred of the civil service going around right now and how I don't understand it at all. We're human beings, not murky bureaucrats and useless drones conspiring to steal money from hard-working people and subtly overthrow democracy. We're the wheels that keep this creaking machine of society functioning. I pointed at sovereign citizens anecdotally, because they're the clearest example of this insanity, but there's a lot of hostility among regular working people who seem to think their public servants are enjoying a free ride at their expense. I think we can all agree, there's some waste and incompetence that needs to be dealt with, but going at it with a chainsaw (and then delving into top secret/private information and selling it to the Russians) isn't the solution, and I think we ALL know that deep down and can maybe stop rationalizing this bullshit, yes?
edit: added link to previously unsubstantiated liberal hysteria
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The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
If this list is supposed to be your examples of DEI and wokeness, it genuinely makes you seem insane to me. Come on back from the rabbit hole buddy, we miss you. Or I do, anyway
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
Come on now. You're doing fine without the name calling, brother
The1True
8, 8, I forget what is for
I'm not ignoring you, buddy. I'm a little bummed that you don't give a crap about my country's sovereignty. I thought we disagreed about some things but were neighbours and friends who loved to talk about dorky elf games.
DangerousPuhson
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
In fairness, I said he was *being* a piece of shit, not that he *is* a piece of shit. I made the distinction deliberately.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
I prefer the smaller, 20th century, ethno-states to empires, and I don't particularly want the US/UK/EU/NATO to keep trying to micromanage the world.
I just don't think your country's sovereignty was ever in danger.
EDIT: Pondering this some more...if you truly care about national sovereignty:
(1) why are you still a part of the British Commonwealth?
(2) what's the deal with your new PM and his ties to the EU and WEF?
(3) why aren't you paying for your own military defense?
(4) why are you letting China do the things they are doing?
(5) what's the deal with the mass(ive) immigration?
(6) why aren't you using your natural resources to make yourselves wealthy?
(7) why aren't you cheering for global warming (Canada = cold!)?
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squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
Don't care either way. Directness is refreshing.
Malrex
So ... slow work day? Every day?
Wow.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
Reminded me of the Peter Gabriel song,If this list is supposed to be your examples of DEI and wokeness, it genuinely makes you seem insane to me. Come on back from the rabbit hole buddy, we miss you. Or I do, anyway
DangerousPuhson
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
DangerousPuhson
My my my, we just loooove to hear ourselves don't we?
Can't... fight... impulse... to... explain...
1) We call ourselves a part of the Commonwealth because we started out, after all, as a colony; a child-nation of sorts. Being part of the Commonwealth means being part of a family, or at least in the loosest sense, an ancestor. Unlike America, Canada simply asked Britain for its independence, and it was granted. Ergo, Canada's relationship with Britain never became adversarial the way the US did. And its because we aren't adversaries with Britain that we don't mind being considered a part of their vestigial family. Ultimately, being in the Commonwealth in its modern form just means being part of a strong alliance (militarily, economically, scientifically, and culturally), an alliance bound by shared blood and goodwill towards one another. The Governor General and King/Queen's role is almost entirely as figureheads; make no mistake, Canada still does it's own thing, we just adhere to some holdover ceremonies.
What all that means in the day-to-day life of an average Canadian is that we have royalty on the $20 bill, and made our form of abbreviated Olympics (the Commonwealth Games). Not especially impactful to anyone.
2) He's a native Canadian. During his economic career, he worked for the World Bank and the European Union. He's considered a global-level expert in economics. Remember that we Canadians actually *like* Europe, and consider them our unwavering allies.
But so what? You never met someone who worked internationally before?
3) We don't have a ton of population to sustain a global-level military force. We also don't really need to because A) Canada doesn't do a lot of geopolitical posturing. We don't conquer, we don't expand - we do peacekeeping missions, and we begrudgingly follow our allies into their wars. B) the US stepped in and took global military dominance; as we used to be very tight with the US (until *somebody*), it seemed unwise to over invest, especially in peacetime. C) Nobody was really in a position to invade Canada. NATO has our back, the US too (until you-know-who), and the land is so big that it wouldn't be easy. D) Most everybody is on good terms with Canada, so we don't really have many international enemies, just some common enemies of our allies.
4) China has 40 times our population, and the second largest economy in the world. You guys can't even stop China, why would you think we could stop China?
Also see above.
5) We get a lot of immigrants, because Canada seems like a nice place to live. That being said, Canada actually has some of the strictest immigration criteria in the world. A lot of folk coming in are exploiting loopholes (students living past their visas, and a lot of asylum claimants) - some PMs crack down on it, some don't. Trudeau announced some big immigration caps and Carney will be keeping them, so looks like this is a "cracking down" situation.
At any rate, Canada generally welcomes immigrants; immigrants become Canadians.
6) That takes investment and money; it doesn't happen for free. Also, we aren't communists - the only people made wealthy by exploiting resources are the exploiters. Maybe the occasional redneck Albertan with a 6th-grade education can make six figures working oil, but generally those "resources" aren't spread around. Ask yourself: how much money has Exxon given you lately?
Resource extraction also usually means infringing on either protected lands, or indigenous lands. Despite our past and despite your insistence, we actually do still give a shit about that stuff. Also, do you have any idea how much of Canada is remote wilderness, and how unfeasible it is to set up huge scale operations literally hundreds of kilometers from civilization? Go ahead, exploit some resources, let's see how that works out for you.
7) This is insanity. You are insane. Also, it's more accurately described and referred to as "climate change", not "global warming" - welcome to the 21st century. The End.
1) We call ourselves a part of the Commonwealth because we started out, after all, as a colony; a child-nation of sorts. Being part of the Commonwealth means being part of a family, or at least in the loosest sense, an ancestor. Unlike America, Canada simply asked Britain for its independence, and it was granted. Ergo, Canada's relationship with Britain never became adversarial the way the US did. And its because we aren't adversaries with Britain that we don't mind being considered a part of their vestigial family. Ultimately, being in the Commonwealth in its modern form just means being part of a strong alliance (militarily, economically, scientifically, and culturally), an alliance bound by shared blood and goodwill towards one another. The Governor General and King/Queen's role is almost entirely as figureheads; make no mistake, Canada still does it's own thing, we just adhere to some holdover ceremonies.
What all that means in the day-to-day life of an average Canadian is that we have royalty on the $20 bill, and made our form of abbreviated Olympics (the Commonwealth Games). Not especially impactful to anyone.
2) He's a native Canadian. During his economic career, he worked for the World Bank and the European Union. He's considered a global-level expert in economics. Remember that we Canadians actually *like* Europe, and consider them our unwavering allies.
But so what? You never met someone who worked internationally before?
3) We don't have a ton of population to sustain a global-level military force. We also don't really need to because A) Canada doesn't do a lot of geopolitical posturing. We don't conquer, we don't expand - we do peacekeeping missions, and we begrudgingly follow our allies into their wars. B) the US stepped in and took global military dominance; as we used to be very tight with the US (until *somebody*), it seemed unwise to over invest, especially in peacetime. C) Nobody was really in a position to invade Canada. NATO has our back, the US too (until you-know-who), and the land is so big that it wouldn't be easy. D) Most everybody is on good terms with Canada, so we don't really have many international enemies, just some common enemies of our allies.
4) China has 40 times our population, and the second largest economy in the world. You guys can't even stop China, why would you think we could stop China?
Also see above.
5) We get a lot of immigrants, because Canada seems like a nice place to live. That being said, Canada actually has some of the strictest immigration criteria in the world. A lot of folk coming in are exploiting loopholes (students living past their visas, and a lot of asylum claimants) - some PMs crack down on it, some don't. Trudeau announced some big immigration caps and Carney will be keeping them, so looks like this is a "cracking down" situation.
At any rate, Canada generally welcomes immigrants; immigrants become Canadians.
6) That takes investment and money; it doesn't happen for free. Also, we aren't communists - the only people made wealthy by exploiting resources are the exploiters. Maybe the occasional redneck Albertan with a 6th-grade education can make six figures working oil, but generally those "resources" aren't spread around. Ask yourself: how much money has Exxon given you lately?
Resource extraction also usually means infringing on either protected lands, or indigenous lands. Despite our past and despite your insistence, we actually do still give a shit about that stuff. Also, do you have any idea how much of Canada is remote wilderness, and how unfeasible it is to set up huge scale operations literally hundreds of kilometers from civilization? Go ahead, exploit some resources, let's see how that works out for you.
7) This is insanity. You are insane. Also, it's more accurately described and referred to as "climate change", not "global warming" - welcome to the 21st century. The End.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
I'm not sure what is shocking. Without a doubt, there is a lot of misleading data floating around, but here' a rule of thumb --- the things you aren't allowed to say are always those that are just uncomfortably too close to the truth. The powerful have no problem with falsehoods (e.g. the Earth is flat), by the uncomfortable truths are what they censor. (e.g. Lab leak)
Also, not a single one of those points were an original idea of mine. I seldom pay Canadian politics any mind, but a few weeks ago I listen to an hour-long podcast with Maxime Bernier, a longtime Canadian politician who is running for PM as the People's Party of Canada (PPC) candidate. They are the points he raised (except #1, that was me).
There's no need to hash any of this out here, but I imagine every Canadian should have answers to these questions in their own heads.
I were to guess, it's the cavalier attitude towards climate change that is most shocking to @Malrex, so here's a plot for added context (made with an AI).
To that I'll add my very serious doubts that CO2 controls global warming (0.06% of atmosphere & less than 10% of that = 0.006% is human-generated, also it's heavier than N2 so tends to sink and get reabsorbed), ---the historical data shows it lags temp, and the ICCC radiative GHG model is utterly sophomoric. Words like "the Medieval warm period", "little ice-age", and the long established fact that Roman times were much warmer, etc.---all point to climate-change being real, but not a by-product of industrialization.
That's why I believe Canada is shooting itself in the foot needlessly with talk of things like a "carbon tax", etc.
squeen
8, 8, I forget what is for
I purposely used warming in this example.
Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
1. The Commonwealth is a club. It isn't even a trading block. I am not aware of any legal obligations that any member owes to any other member. There is no loss of sovereignty.
2. The WEF is a think tank for people who want to talk about policy, and you may be surprised at how many conservatives from many countries, including your own, have attended WEF meetings before this particular conspiracy theory got legs. Our last conservative PM, Stephen Harper was involved with the WEF. Harper is very conservative and was the boss of Pierre Poilievre, our current conservative candidate for PM; in 2008, Poilievre attended Davos when he was Minister of Foreign Affairs. Also, Trump spoke at the WEF meeting in Davos on January 25, 2025, and I'm pretty sure he attended before until it became unfashionable in conservatives circles.
EDIT: Also, no legal obligations are owed to the WEF. There is no loss of sovereignty.
The EU is interesting as a market because they aren't applying tariffs to us, or threatening to annex us. Also they don't breach trade treaties whenever they feel like it. Also, they don't threaten to put spyware and kill switches in the military equipment they want to sell to us. Also, the new PM's ties are to the UK, which is no longer part of the EU, so
?EDIT: Also, the only legal obligations are trade related and, as even your president knows, trade agreements can be broken. So also, no loss of sovereignty.
3. You got me there, I have wanted to boost military spending forever, and we are regretting not doing so now. But you need to understand, despite its rhetoric, prior to Trump the US wanted to be the largest spender, and even created obstacles for its NATO allies to purchase equipment, and purchased equipment frequently comes with strings attached. The US did this because it gave it more influence to impose its foreign policy, and it's why the top commander of NATO has never not been American, even though it was technically open to any country. NATO gave the US the ability to pressure NATO members to join in US actions, which gives US actions legitimacy. It also allowed the US to forbid NATO allies from using equipment in ways the US doesn't want, which is why it took so long for a lot of equipment to be supplied by Europe to Ukraine. If the US ever actually wanted other NATO countries to spend more, it could have nade it happen. I mean, it's making is happen right now, isn't it?
Of course, another issue is we didn't really have to worry about that much our northern border, because ice, and now we have to worry about it a lot, because climate change.
4. Re China, I don't know WTF you are talking about, you need to be more specific.
5. If you are asking why we have so many immigrants, we like immigration, and we like immigrants. We like the economic growth immigration brings. The only pushback at the moment is because of housing scarcity.
If you are asking about some theory that immigrants are piling across the Canadian border to get into the US, I don't actually think that is happening. We do get a lot of undocumented immigrants sneaking into Canada from the US, though. Some of us are expecting that to get a lot worse, particularly now that the US is deporting 2 year old US citizens with cancer without having any kind of hearing.
6. Re: natural resources, WTF are you talking about? We sell you more energy than anyone else in the world. You have relied on our electrical grid when yours breaks down. We don't sell as much to others because, you know, oceans? We were planning to sell you our rare earths and critical minerals but, you know, tariffs? We sell you better lumber for construction than you can grow at home, which is why your local lobby is constantly trying to get it tariffed.
Also, we are pretty wealthy. We are the 9th most wealthy economy in the world, despite our small population. We also have a much smaller national debt-to-GDP ratio, around 48% give or take; the US is around 99%. And that is despite having socialized health insurance (in most places lots of care is provided by private business but paid for by the government). That lower debt-to-GDP ratio is why I think we should have invested more in defence and intelligence, but the big limitation there was conservative politicians making it politically difficult to spend the money, which would have (and will now) require increasing the deficit for a period of time.
7. The 80s is calling, they want their lexicon back. It's called climate change because not everywhere changes in the same direction or by the same amount. The prairies are pretty arid, glaciers that regulated water flow are disappearing, and drought is becoming more common. The climate is generally less stable across Canada. We are getting way more forest fires, more flooding, more storms, more high winds. Canada is known for its water, but the actual amount of water available at any given time is less than you think, the things that regulated water availability, like glaciers, are disappearing.
But leave my description of what is actually happening aside. You know how you can tell that climate change is real and damaging? By the number of places where insurance companies used to sell insurance, that they are refusing to insure any more. Refusing to provide insurance is not woke, it is a business decision made because it is no longer profitable to provide insurance because of the size and frequency of the claims.
Also, see answer to #3.
Also, the US fucking military takes climate change really seriously, not because it is woke, but because changes in worldwide resource availability and operating environments are a strategic, operational and tactical issue. At least, they took it seriously until a couple of months ago.
Also, Trump is absolutely serious about annexation. Making those comments to "help with negotiations" doesn't really make sense if you aren't negotiating. And what negotiating is he doing with Denmark?
EDIT: Adding to this, the only thing that is slowing Trump down is the incompetence of his administration, and the amount of pushback he got from Canada. Because make no mistake, if economic or other kinds of force is applied, we will absolutely hurt ourselves in order to hurt you. I have often thought that the reason Canadians are so polite is so we aren't constantly beating the shit out of each other. Don't push us. Americans are all bluster; we aren't.
I also would like to point out that Bernier is a clown who only started the PPC because he lost his bid to be leader of the CPC. In 2008 that idiot resigned as Minister of Foreign Affairs because he left his confidential briefing book at the apartment of his girlfriend; that was back when accountability was a thing. So, good company with Peter Hegseth, I guess. I believe Bernier's party is currently running at 1.4% in the polls, because he's a clown, and Canadians know he's a clown.
In summary, please get out of your information bubble, it sucks. EDIT: Read something by somebody who is knowledgeable, and who you disagree with. That's what I do.
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Beoric
8, 8, I forget what is for
This I believe.
Ineffective Voulging
A FreshHell to Contend With
Or to summarise
trump is a fascist.
Anyone still supporting him is a fascist or an idiot, or both.
trump is a fascist.
Anyone still supporting him is a fascist or an idiot, or both.